‘People often said, how did you have the time and the truth is, is that it gave me energy’
Mark Hanson, Partner
Mishcon de Reya
So hi, welcome Tabitha.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Thank you.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Welcome to the Academy. So Tabitha you’re a second year trainee at Mishcon de Reya.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yep.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And also an author.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Of the wonderful ‘Sons of Prophecy’. A historical novel set during the War of the Roses.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Exactly yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
So as there’s no one better than the author to tell us about a book, tell us a bit more about the book.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes, so well thank you for having me here. As you say, it is a historical fiction during the War of the Roses and it particularly follows the life of Jasper Tudor who is the uncle of Henry VI. I sort of refer to him as maybe the periods most overlooked protagonist because everyone’s heard of the Tudors but no one’s heard of Jasper or at least very few have. So really it starts, opens in 1456, a year after the first summation of violence at the Battle of St Albans and so the country is teetering on the edge of Civil War. Henry VI who is on the thrown is slipping deeper into illness and the Richard of York is lurking in the shadows ready to seize power. Jasper is half-brother of Henry VI so his loyalties are very firmly with Lancaster and yes, it then takes us through the next 30 years until the famous Battle of Bosworth so seeing it through his eyes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
So I mean that period of time War of the Roses, there were a lot of very striking characters in that 30 years of conflict. So what particularly about Jasper struck you as being worthy of a sort of standalone novel?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
It’s a, it’s a good question. I suppose it really goes all the way back to 2013 when I was watching the BBC adaption of Philippa Gregory’s ‘The White Queen’. I was 16 and completely captivated by the drama and sort of luxury that we were seeing on screen and with all the scheming and all the sort of complex characters as those sort of steadfast loyalty of Jasper really stood out in comparison. There’s a great quote that I have at the beginning of the book by a historian writing in the early 20th century and he talks about how the care and affection Jasper bestowed on his father’s nephew stands in stark contrast the brutality surrounding them and for me that really captured it because when everyone was switching sides and no one knows who’s loyal to who, to have someone who stays consistent throughout this whole period is quite rare and I wanted to learn more and I felt that it was a story that deserved to sort of be given this, a stage, given a platform for other people to read about it.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah excellent. And look. I mean War of the Roses is a tumultuous time in our history. Why do you think that people are still so fascinated with it as a, as a period?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
It’s a good one because I was talking to someone earlier today about it and she was explaining that she, was very staunchly a Yorkist and was telling me about Richard Neville and the Kingmaker and all her enjoyment with that and it is this thing you know, who really knows why, where people still now feel an infinity to one side or another, this is obviously very much from a Lancastrian perspective but I think there’s. I suppose sort of the complexity but very much the human nature at the heart of it. These are families turning on each other. You’ve got brothers-in-law fighting each other, you’ve got father’s going a different side to sons. I think in that way we can almost sort of, we get drawn in by that personal element and I think also maybe the scale of it. When you look at sort of the numbers involved in some of these battles when you compare them to the population size at the time, it’s a huge percentage of the population drawn in where arguably the people at the top are quite a small number but they bring in everyone and I think that really captures, still captures us you know, what is it? Five and a half centuries later because I think we’re sort of, I don’t know, fascinated by how we might sort of, of seen ourselves in those moments.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But, I mean, and it comes out through the book very well, the brutality in the War of the Roses was in stark contrast with the age of chivalry before where you know if you were a, a rich noble and you lost a battle you, you expected to be ransomed and kept as captive whereas you know, in the War of the Roses towards the, the once he got to Towton and beyond.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
The slaughter you know, you chopped the heads off people you caught without a second thought.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
No matter how noble they were and it was a particularly brutal time. Do you think that, that’s part of the interest that people have in it, that civilisation seemed to sort of dissipate for 30 years?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah I think you know, we look back on that period where we see the Kings and Queens and all the sort of finery and maybe think that there was this sort of very much you know, chivalrous nature, as you say, with Knights of the Garter and all of that but you’re right, there is a lot of violence simmering under the surface and I do think as a period it sort of charts that shift you know, you, you make the good point for drawing out Towton. Before that you have people being ransomed because you know, that is what had been done beforehand and then it’s almost though by Towton that it, the conflict had been going on for so long, at this impasse where you are having a battle on one side wins, and then the next side wins and it is sort of seen as you know, from here on out there can only be one victor and there is no room for anybody else to be pardoned and you’re right, you just see this sort of swathe of you know, generations just then killed even if they survive the battle. And so I think it is a real shift and, but maybe it was because of the how entrenched the violence had become that they saw no further way out because when you look forward to Henry VIII you know, especially in his early reign, he’s very keen on the principles of chivalry and you know, being the Machiavellian prince so I think it’s maybe lost for a moment but comes back and I think maybe it’s lost because of what’s in front of them.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Mm, I mean one of the striking things you, you almost lose track in the book of how many for example, Dukes of Somerset were beheaded you know, his father, son…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yep.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…brother you know.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
All of them.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
All of them yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah and everyone’s…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
It’s particularly brutal.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…Edmund or Edward or Henry, it is quite helpful and maybe this is the other reason why Jasper stuck in me is he is the only Jasper.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Jasper, he is the only Jasper.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
It makes it very easy as the author to be like, well at least we know what our protagonist is doing because it’s not Henry Number 6 who’s coming in.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Absolutely. And while the book is, is I guess focussing very much on Jasper and to some extent Henry who becomes Henry VII, there are very significant roles in the book for Margaret Beaufort, Henry’s mother and Queen Margaret, Henry VI wife and they are portrayed in the book as very strong characters in what was this particularly violent and, and frankly misogynistic time. What did you find interesting about them as characters?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So I am glad you pulled that out because it was a very conscious decision. I was very aware that you know, I am writing about a man’s experience in the Civil War and you know there’s been some great books recently that have put the focus back on women and in 7.21 Garth Weeks’ Saskia is a brilliant example of that and so I, I didn’t want my book to have an absence of women because I think that this period, although it’s very much focussed in historical records on what men have done, the women behind them are incredibly important and you know, no more so than Margaret Beaufort, Margaret of Anjou and I think for Margaret Beaufort in particular I was very struck when I was doing my research and going to different places, I was at St David’s Cathedral where Edmund’s body is buried and there was a man who was having a very heated discussion with a Tour Guide and the level of I suppose vitriol he was still speaking about Margaret Beaufort, you know, calling her shrewish and scheming and I was sitting there going…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Do people actually call people shrewish in this…?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Well yes he did and…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…in the 21st Century I didn’t know that.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…well maybe not allowed but people still are.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
History buffs in St David’s Cathedral.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah history buffs still are about.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Okay, right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
And I was thinking, hang on you know, this is a woman who was 13 when she gave birth to her son.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Who successfully navigated as you’ve said a very tumultuous time of history and becomes you know, she eventually becomes the King’s mother is the title she is given and has a very prominent position in Henry VII’s court and I think there’s quite a lot of I suppose maybe a misogynistic lens that has been, she has been shown through whereas it’s sort of this fear of powerful women in history and I think I was quite keen to try and separate that because you know, other books sort of talk about her as having a hand in the deaths of the Prince in the Tower and that you know, heightens this idea of her being sort of a fanatic. The only surviving portrait of her, she is sort of penitence in prayer. It sort of suggests this idea of an older woman who is sort of obsessed by God and certain books like Philippa Gregory sort of depict her in a similar way. She goes a bit further, she suggests there’s a sort of illicit romance between her and Jasper and then in a subsequent book has her murder Jasper on finding out he knows she killed the Prince in the Tower. Needless to say this all didn’t happen. When Jasper dies at the time considered old age of 65 which is not a spoiler to say that he does survive this book, Margaret is nowhere to be seen. She didn’t, she didn’t kill him but there’s a great book by Nicola Tallis called the ‘Uncrowned Queen’ and she really picks apart sort of what we know about Margaret and what actually is more just you know, yeah the sort of layers of propaganda and misogyny because I think we have to you know, admire a very courageous woman.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And she had such a hard, hard life as you say, married off at 13, give birth to her first child at 13. Husband then dies and then she, she actually marries into the Yorkist side…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…of the conflict, twice.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Twice I know, she does very well at positioning herself in terms of thinking where might her sort of, what’s going to best serve her family and at times you’re right, it puts her diametrically opposed to where Jasper is and where her son is but it’s sort of playing the game you know, I talk about quite a strong theme in my book is this idea of fortunes wheel…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…constantly turning and bringing people up and then pulling people down and she is almost trying to balance the scales you know, how can she make sure they benefit at whichever turn but yeah, that can’t have been easy to you know, live with two husbands who are fighting against your son. That’s not something that any mother would probably naturally want and I think it’s just sort of epitomises the topsy-turvy nature of the era but also shows her resilience and what she’s wanting to achieve.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
I mean obviously spoiler alert you know, she does become…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah spoiler alert, I…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…the King, the King’s mother. The contrast with Queen Margaret is, is stark isn’t it because so she, she was having to carry her husband who, who was seriously ill, mental health problems and at times lead the Lancastrian cause while all the time seeking to protect her own son who Prince Edward who was going to be the, the next King.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And it didn’t end so well for her.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
No it doesn’t you know, she arrives into England to marry Henry XI you know, it’s this massive occasion you know, all this hope of what she’ll be able to achieve, her father Duke René is a very proud man and is wanting his daughter to raise them up into this sort of the echelons of the nobility and you know, ultimately it all ends in disaster as you say, she does I think, a very good job at supporting her husband when he is incapacitated and his, it is still unclear what illness he had but it effectively left him unable to speak, unable to move and so really incapable of doing anything and she really does well in a strange country with not many supporters to try and keep things going. I think for her it is almost she takes a different approach maybe as a, as a mother than Margaret does you know, for her she keeps her son incredibly close. When they invade England she doesn’t let Edward go with them and ultimately you can say that’s why then at the Battle of Tewksbury they are always on the back foot through that and get forced into a battle they’re not prepared for which ultimate spells disaster for them. Maybe had she been more forthcoming and willing to push her son forward, that might not have happened but I think she is also an example of you know, how fortunes wheel can spin and leave you much, much lower than you ever thought you know, you might have been.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Mm, I do wonder what, whatever happened to her because…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
I know. I know.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…it’s not in the book.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
No she goes…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Maybe a spin off.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…she gets ransomed back to her father and that…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And disappears from history.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…and she just yeah, she just dies in relative poverty.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And heartbroken.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah it’s, it’s tragic. So the book is obviously written for a modern audience.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But it, it’s, you’re writing about times over 500 years ago when values and, and the rest of it were very different. So how do you keep the story authentic but at the same time make it relevant to a modern audience?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah it’s, it was a difficult one because I am conscious that I want, I was wanting to attract a modern audience and I was wanting to make it as widely sort of accessible as possible so that lends itself to a certain type of writing, a certain language you use but at the same breath, I wanted historical accuracy you know, one of my aims in writing this was borne out of frustration at reading similar books from the time period and people are alive when they shouldn’t be and as someone that knows the period very well, it’s endlessly frustrating when you are going, no I am sorry you should have been dead five years ago. And other people might not notice it and brush over it but for me it’s like, but I think you know I, I as a person am influenced by the time line existing and my values and that very much then comes into the book. I haven’t written this and completely removed myself from what I am writing, my characters and my interpretation of these people and you know, so I’ve made certain sort of what may be some sort of modern points of view in but maybe don’t have a place then but I think it can help, I don’t know, bring the reader along to make them empathise with people. I think you know, a balance should be struck but I think if you go too hard for trying to completely fit with the ideals of the time you might alienate people that might otherwise enjoy learning about a period you know, it, it’s interesting to think about how different opinions on things have changed. So I do think you know, I have tried to draw out certain sort of people that might be holding those views but have then tried to challenge them throughout the characters so I think it’s a constant interplay, a constant balance between yes how modern are you going to make it versus how true to the historical period.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But you haven’t altered the stories…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
No I haven’t altered…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…and the chronology in any way.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…the stories, no, no so that…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
A, as you say when people do that it is frustrating if you know, it’s a really frustrating thing to...
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
It really is and I think…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…pick up.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…you know, historical accuracy I would say is maybe a sliding scale you know, you have, you could be 100% historically accurate and then bore your reader to death or you could be so loosely based that you are wondering why you even bothered to call it historical in the first place. I think the word that I, in my historical note at the end I sort of explain it as this idea of the space where fact gives way to imagination. You know, we, as we’ve said, it’s five and a half centuries, that’s a long time to reach back across and we’ll never know the content of conversations like this, have light the fires in cold a cold draughty castle but we do know the events that those conversations led to, the births, the marriages, deaths and so I’ve used those events as a sort of stepping stone to sort of track the story through, to anchor it and guide the reader and to get those sort of anchor points I’ve then used you know, the wisdom of a multitude of historians. There really are some amazing historians out there and there’s also been a lot more scholarship more recently on Jasper and Terry Breverton is brilliant, he had a book on Jasper and a book on Owen and that was you know, a huge like brilliant resource to have and that’s really allowed me to sort of almost each chapter there’s something happens that can be historically you know, proven and you have the records and I can point to about six historians that say you know, what happened.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But your research went beyond just academic research didn’t it?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
I mean you had to tell some interesting stories about where you went so tell us a bit more about that?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes so I suppose, well I should give a bit of context because I started writing this when I was doing my LPC and so I had quite nice long holidays so at that point, less so now so I had the opportunity to go and visit a lot of these castles and the places where the story is set. I’ve dragged countless friends round Pembroke Castle which is an amazing building and I, I love castles I think for the sense of just scale and almost your insignificance to history. I weirdly find it comforting. I don’t know what that says about me but there we go. But being able to visit them was wonderful. I’ll admit that sometimes it was slightly out of order so in certain instances I wrote about the place before I visited it and that was particular for Bamburgh Castle and so when I then visited Bamburgh and I was standing on the beach looking up at it and it really is an amazing fortress. A very iconic shot I feel that beach look up to it and I suddenly thought, oh no I have, I have captured this. I feel like I’ve done that justice because I’m feeling what I want the reader to feel and that was a really satisfying moment of going, okay no I think I’ve got this. And it’s been lovely to discover the castles in Wales, I mean there’s such an amazing collection and in nearly every town has a castle and so for one birthday I got given membership for Welsh Heritage so that got me entrance into all of them and I took myself off on a Welsh road trip and went up to Denby and down to Harlech and it was, it was wonderful. I would recommend anyone you know, who has a passing interest in history, go and see these castles, it brings it to life.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
They are, I, I’ve been to most of them.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
But not Pembroke yet.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But not Pembroke, Pembroke I will go to.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Add that to the list.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And did you go to the battlefields at all?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
I didn’t, no. So that was the one thing I didn’t do. I did toy with going to Bosworth but in the end didn’t manage it. I suppose I went through where, near where Mortimer’s Cross happened so I’ve been to Hay and then I’ve driven up towards Ludford Bridge, um yes, Ludlow all that so I sort of got a sense of I suppose the distance we were talking about in terms of okay, would… is that feasible you know and so some of, I’ve got the sense of the geography because I think that’s really important is that you know, I did that road trip in a car you know, without even thinking about it.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Not on a horse.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah and so you’ve got to think god they’ve gone all the way from Mill Bay up to you know, Shrewsbury and what does that actually mean you know, when you are on foot and so I think you know, visiting the places gives you that real sense of but no I didn’t make it to the battlefields so maybe…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah, yeah. St Albans is worth going to first. St Albans because the street plan is still the same.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Is it?
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Okay.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
So you get a real feel for where that happened.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
How amazing yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah. So we haven’t really talked about you know, what prompted you to write the book.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Because not many you know, solicitors or well trainees actually write a, write a book on something so unconnected with you know, their work for example.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Mm, so I suppose yeah it’s two-fold; so one was sort of the immediate was when I was doing my LPC, I didn’t really feel like I had a creative outlet. I didn’t study law at uni, I did anthropology and that gave me a huge sort of outlet for my creativity because I was in control of whatever essay I wrote and so that was really fund. And then so going into the LPC it was this quite tram lined – as I am sure many people can relate to – and I just needed something to escape into and I suppose it was something that wasn’t assessed. I think it’s sort of important to say that when I started writing this there was no end goal in mind you know, I wasn’t writing to go, oh well then I’m in my second year of my training contract I will have a book. So that was not the motivation, it was more just a curious experiment to see where it would go. So that was sort of what prompted it at that moment and so that was three years ago back in January 2022 was what did that and we’d had conversations over Christmas, the classic, oh if you wanted to write a book what would you write about? And I joked that considering the amount of research I’d already done, Jasper would be my subject and I suppose that research and that interest actually starts way back as I mentioned earlier, in 2013 with watching The White Queen and what also interplayed with that is that at the time I was in lower sixth and my school had an essay competition and we had free reign to pick whatever we wanted and so I wrote that essay on Jasper and I remember going to my history teacher, Keith Haye who is a wonderful man, and sort of being a bit nervous because you know, this was quite a left field subject to do. You know, at the time there was very few books on it and the poor library staff had to go out I think to Cardiff Uni to get a thesis for me to actually read because there were about four books at the time. But Mr Haye was, he smiled at me knowingly and was like, ah uncle Jasper and was this huge sort of, his enthusiasm for it made me believe that it was a period that you know, I could explore and get interested in and I suppose since then it’s just been every time I’ve gone into a bookstore, I’ve gone to the history section, I’ve gone to War of the Roses and I’ve picked up a book and crucially I turn to the reference pages because when I first started doing this I would pick up a book and Jasper wouldn’t be in the references or if he was there would be one reference to it and then since, since 2013 I have seen a complete shift in how many books are mentioning him because the truth is, you can’t really talk about the War of the Roses in sort its entirety without talking about him. He is so central to Henry VII coming to power and so it’s been exciting to see that change. I wonder how many other people were influenced by it watching… or maybe it was the excitement around that BBC adaption and people realising, oh no one’s written about him, brilliant there’s the gap. And also if I reflect back I didn’t realise at the time that my school actually had quite a lot of connections to the Tudor period because Margaret Beaufort’s parents are buried at Wimborne Minster which is the town where my school was and there is still a school there called The Queen Elizabeth School and it was founded by Margaret you know, she also famously founded I think it’s two of the Cambridge Colleges and, but she also founded this school and then Elizabeth 1 changed its name to The Queen Elizabeth School. But we used to play them in sport and I didn’t realise you know, the connection at the time and now I am like, oh maybe it was all subliminal.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And did you enjoy writing the book?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes I loved it.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Because some people you know, it, it’s quite hard to write a book. I wrote a very boring book a long time ago, still available about Facilities Management Contracts if you are interested and it, it was very difficult. Was it easy for you?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
I think there are points where it was difficult but I think overridingly it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it. I think people have often said, how did you have the time. When the truth is, is that it gave me energy you know, I didn’t, writing wasn’t something that was a drain on my time or a sort of thing to check off my to do list. It was the thing that I was excited when I woke in the morning to sit with my cup of tea and to write a few lines or coming back on the tube from lectures, scribbling down a few ideas on a notes page. Getting in the car and driving to these places. It really was this thing that just caught my imagination. It was like something to escape into. I had thought maybe when I started the training contract that that would diminish because I, I had a year off between my LBC and my training contract which also helped with being able to write it a bit more. It gave me a purpose as well in a year where I otherwise would have been a bit directionless which was lovely.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Was that during Covid?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
No actually it was 2021-22, so no the world was open so yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Or starting to open.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Starting to open.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
But no, but that was lovely when you know, working at a local farm shop, not very glamorous but I was then you know, in my other down time I was writing which was lovely. But I think yeah it just meant something that is just is always just really been something that I want to prioritise that I’ve got joy from and I think that was the key with it you know, this was always about bringing happiness for me and bringing joy and I think that had I not found it enjoyable, well it never would have got here. And I think in that I do have to sort of do a shout out to the support around me with my family and my… and also friends as well who have just been, how have been so supportive you know, I joke, people joke that you are your own worst critic and to them I say, well clearly you aren’t an identical twin because if you want brutal honesty there’s no one better than the person that spends their entire life being judged by your actions so when I wrote the first part of the book I sent it to my twin sister Liberty, and waited with baited breath about what she would say because honestly if she says, hey Tab this is awful, I wouldn’t have written it because…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…you know, she is the historian in the family, she did history at uni and so I value what she thinks and I would have, she would have been always honest with me and instead she phoned me about five minutes later going, this is brilliant you need to, you need to write some more. And so I think that excitement and enthusiasm from people directly around me also made me more excited to write it because I knew that even if it was only my you know, little close family you know, that they would be excited with whatever I did and so that brought me joy as well.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
In tricks of the trade did you actually draft out the whole book as you saw it would be or did you just have chapter headings or, so how did you do it?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So I set out a plan at the beginning of the 26.32 and sort of, I knew I was always going to start in 1456, that was clear to me.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
You know Edmund died and I already sort of just had this image of Jasper riding to Pembroke, I thought it was a good way of just opening because I think you know, St… the battle of St Albans is very interesting with its quite complex how they get there and it’s all a bit messy and sort of I think that’s the danger with this as a period is because it is so complex, it’s how do you draw that out and so I knew where I was starting and quite helpfully you know, 1485 was a very clear you know, cut point and that’s recognised in the history as well because I think modern period starts in 1485 they just, they needed an arbitrary line. That is the line. So it is very helpful that. So I had my end points and then I suppose it was just going through and just you know pinning out the key battles and moments throughout that and that’s then what took the structure and from that it, when you read the book, you’ll see that it’s in parts you know and so it was sorting of thinking okay that can fit into this part and that can go in that part and then once I’d sort of sectioned it out - because that just made it easier to sort of put in my head – then I went into more detail. I suppose I didn’t have any idea of like chapter headings but I did know that I almost needed each chapter to sort of have a reason to move the story forward because I am covering a huge period in one book I was very conscious about keeping, keeping the energy going, keeping that, the reader moving through.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
And so I think yeah. But I didn’t, it wasn’t as meticulously planned as maybe someone starting a complete fiction book you know, someone doing a fantasy book I think requires a lot more of that pre-planning in terms of characters. You know, I suppose the, the benefit you have from doing historical fiction where everyone is real is that well I can just go and look at a history book and just check, okay that, that was how old they were and that was some of the characteristics people say they have and look there’s a portrait of them, okay brilliant and suddenly that just helps fill in, paint by numbers would be too simplistic but it helps you know, it does help you know, fill, fill in those gaps when you might otherwise have hit a writing block. And you also can’t then write yourself into a corner which I know is a problem for people with other genres is, oh we’ve killed off the person we really needed.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
The benefit with historical fiction is it naturally sorts itself out so.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And, and it’s a book about the War of the Roses. Do you have to have knowledge of the War of the Roses to get the best out of it do you think or do you think a, a lay person can pick it up and read it as a you know, an interesting novel just in itself?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So I, from people I’ve spoken to who have now read it, I know that if you have no knowledge you can really enjoy it and I think that was also quite a clear motivator behind sort of how I wrote and how I covered things. Because I wanted it to do two things, I wanted someone like me or like you who very much knows the period to be able to read it and be satisfied and not have those frustrating moments or at least I hope you didn’t have any frustrating moments…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
None at all.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…if going, oh God why are they there, why is that out of order and so that was sort of my personal thing so I want someone who’s very knowledgeable to still enjoy it but then I wanted people to not be put off, to you know, to learn about something new. I am a big believer that historical fictions are a great way of introducing people to periods that they might not otherwise read about. You know, I never formally studied this period at school, we did the bit after and we did the bit before but we didn’t do this bit and so I’ve also learnt a lot as well as obviously from non-fictions but from reading fictions and there is some brilliant other books about this period and so I would hope that anyone can read this and enjoy it and I know my cousin Phoebe, she read it and very much enjoyed it as more like a sort of action semi sort of magical thing of you know, she could almost imagine with put a few wizards in and it could have been you know, a fantasy book. And that’s absolutely fine you know it’s about getting the enjoyment from it.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Whatever level you’re reading it at.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah I mean I guess some of the, the themes in it you know, are universal themes which have applied throughout history, sort of greed and love, hatred…
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
…and so people should be able to relate to them no matter the fact that they’re sitting in the 21st century and it’s 500 years ago, it’s the same issues that people face in life even now.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Exactly and I think that was you know, very much what I wanted because it’s easy to look at those periods and be alienated by the difference, distance of time and I didn’t want that to be the case and I think also they’re you know, as a period we know, we’ve said it still holds people, sort of the fascination that it holds and I think you know, you’ve got Game of Thrones and things like have, have helped bring it into this thing of everyone’s a bit aware of it and I think you.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
You said there was no dragons.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So there is, there are no dragons…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
There are no dragons.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…despite the dragon on the front there is no, the Welsh dragon is the only dragon that makes an appearance in the book unfortunately yes.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yeah so, so I think I’ve got most of my knowledge of the War of the Roses from Shakespeare.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Okay yeah.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And do you think Shakespeare is, is a good guide to War of the Roses for people who maybe come into it new or…?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
I think, I think he can be good. I, I love Shakespeare history plays, I particularly really enjoy Henry IV and Henry V, so just before and I think they’re quite useful in sort of understanding how you get to this point so I think that can sometimes be difficult. It’s like, how did you suddenly get to the whole country at war with each other. I think when it gets into the War of the Roses part, you know you have to sort of recognise that Shakespeare is writing during Elizabeth I rein, he is influenced by making sure that she is shown in the best light which means showing certain you know, showing the Tudors in a good light. You know, I very much steered away, I mean Richard III doesn’t get mentioned much in my book, he’s sort of there but not but I didn’t want to try and lean in to any of these ideas and sort of the evil hunchback of Shakespeare and I think you know, very much in modern re-tellings that just sort of all been put to the side. You know, you can understand why Shakespeare use it, uses it is at as a device to sort of really make it clear to the audience, oh this is a bad guy but…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
He was a pretty bad guy wasn’t he? Let’s be honest.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
He, I mean he, he did yes and I think there’s a… obviously huge conspiracy theories about who filled the prince in the tower. I haven’t gone into that, I’ve just been like, Richard III or someone within his employ probably did. Whether it was a you know, a Thomas Becket situation of oh…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
It’s kind of academic because he put them in the tower in the first place didn’t he?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah it’s kind of academic but…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And took the thrown so you know.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Exactly so yeah but, yeah going back to Shakespeare I think it is, I think he is great to read about it but he misses out quite a lot of key characters you know, Margaret Beaufort is barely mentioned at all, Jasper’s not in it at all, because of all the different generations of different nobles he sort of simplifies some of them and combines two together…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…so I think that if you’re wanting the detail of it I wouldn’t say Shakespeare’s the best but I think you’re better watching it if you’re already familiar because if you’re familiar with it you understand where he’s combined things or gone off on a, on a certain route whereas if you’ve got no knowledge then it can be a bit overwhelming on that but the BBC’s adaption of The Hollow Crown is brilliant and…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And still on iPlayer.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…is still on iPlayer yes you know. Other streaming services are available. But no, it’s a good one. I think there are other as well you know, I’ve mentioned Philippa Gregory, I think she did a brilliant job at really bringing this sort of period into sort of just wide, the wider society of people going, oh that’s an interesting period and others like Connie Gordon have done similar, he’s got a great quadrilogy that basically takes the exact same period I’ve done but breaks into four because the truth is that there is a wealth of stuff that you could have done and I could have I don’t know, dived deeper into it but I think some of the reason for not doing that is probably because you know, I self-published this versus having you know, a big publishing house behind me going, oh don’t worry Tabitha, here’s an advance, go off and enjoy yourself.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
But what, what is next actually? Is it, is there going, is there going to be Jasper volume 2?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Well there are still 10 more years of his life although as we were chatting through before, maybe questionable how interesting that period of history was. I personally think it’s quite interesting, you didn’t sound so convinced.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
No I’ll go with it, I’ll go with it.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
But maybe I’ll be able to make it…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Make it exciting.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…make it exciting yes because we have all the pretenders and I think what’s interesting is that we come to it, sort of recognise the Tudors as being this solidly established dynasty, you know Henry VIII can have all the sort of carnage and chaos of all his different lives but there’s never a question of, oh well he should be King and I think that’s really interesting because when you look at how tenuous Henry VII’s link was and actually how fragile his initial years were, it is quite remarkable that we get to the next 100 years of the just, of course it’s the Tudors and so I think I would like to explore that a bit to understand you know, what is it in those early years that cement him so much beyond sort of reproach in terms of getting rid of him as they’d done, you know previously and so yes, so Jasper lives for 10 more years after Bosworth so there is some interesting you know, more to come, he gets married…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Oh.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…yeah you know.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
There you go.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
He’s made Duke.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Wow.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So there’s lots of other stuff that you know, could be explored but I think you know, it depends on ti… what I have time for. I think what I’d love to do is I’ve learnt so much from you know, navigating the self-publishing world with this, I’d quite like to take those learnings and do it again with better equipped because I must admit sort of this time round it’s sort of all a bit wide eyed and going, oh what type set do I want and, oh that cover design would be good or, I think it’s ended up alright actually, I’m very proud of it.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Fantastic.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah my…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Very good.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
…my cover designer is a man called Mark Swann and I have to give him a shout out because he did a brilliant job. But that was almost luck you know, you sort of put out these, quote, request quotes from the sort of random marketplace and strangers and you hope that the person that comes back actually knows what they’re doing and he did so…
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
And where is the book available from?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Ah so yes so the book is available really from anywhere, so you can buy it on Waterstones, on Amazon, Barnes & Mabel so all over the world.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
They’re in the bookshops already then?
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So they’re not in bookshops, so they are available online.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
I am sure if you, you know always support local, so if you were to go into a local book store and say, please could you order in this book then they will be able to because the details of it are on the central database that all bookshops use.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Right.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
My local bookshop if anyone’s from East Sussex and would like to go to the Wadhurst bookshop, then highly recommend and they actually have physical copies partly because my uncle walked in and gave them some copies and went, I’ve already bought these you can now just sell them themselves.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
That’s good of him.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
And actually my book is dedicated to my uncle because I think that uncle, obviously Uncle Matthew dynamic very much runs through the book and he’s been hugely supportive of me throughout this.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Yes.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
So it’s quite fitting to have that in there.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
Well I bought mine.
Tabitha Tennant, Trainee
Mishcon de Reya
Yes you did.
Mark Hanson, Partner, Mishcon de Reya
There you go and very good it is too. Worth every penny.