Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers, with me Elliot Moss bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guests today I am very pleased to say are Lisa and Alana MacFarlane, Founders of The Gut Stuff, a multi-industry platform democratising gut health education. DJ’ing for 7 years as the Mac Twins, Alana and Lisa had regular live shows on BBC1 Extra and Virgin Radio as well as performing at the Olympics and as the official Love Island DJ’s - finding out a lot more about that soon. Invited to take part in twin research at Kings College London under Professor Tim Spector, they became the chief guinea pigs for the British Gut Project, discovering that despite having a 100% the same DNA, their guts have only 30% to 40% the same microbiolta – I hope I said that correctly – which explained why their bodies behaved so differently. I am sure there is a lot to discuss there. Fascinated by the science and how many health issues gut bacteria was linked to, Lisa and Alana set out on a mission to shake up the confusing elitist communication around gut health and make it accessible and fun. And boy have they done that. The Gut Stuff launched in 2017 and they now have a successful snacking range, a corporate wellness services business, three books, a consumer focus gut health app, I hope this finished at 10.00 o’clock and a now global TV show.
Firstly great to have you here behind microphones again. You’re back by popular demand.
Alana MacFarlane
It’s been a while.
Elliot Moss
It’s been a while but they’ve kind of settled in very quickly here. Back by popular demand. The DJ’ing thing, I just want to start in a random place. What’s it like when you know lots of people, he says, asking question is ridiculous, what’s it like when you know lots of people are listening to you or watching you? What’s, was that a buzz?
Lisa MacFarlane
I think you have to not be able to compute that otherwise you would just be paralysed. Like I genuinely think especially in radio, I think the beauty of it is you believe you’re talking to one person and I think the intimacy of that is quite, like obviously like, Virgin was a Saturday night show so it was, you were aware that people get ready to go on night out whilst they were chatting to us but it really just did feel like it was us and our producers.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah and I think when we did the bigger gigs like the Hogmanay 2,000 people, Twickenham 80,000 people because you were just in your own little world like you couldn’t really compute like everyone in that whole stadium almost, it, it was actually the more intimate gigs that you felt more connected I’d say.
Elliot Moss
Mm.
Alana MacFarlane
Like in a club, sweaty club at 3.00am.
Lisa MacFarlane
Or like...
Alana MacFarlane
Where you can see the three people that hate what you’re playing, glaring at you.
Elliot Moss
Yeah. It’s quite stressful.
Lisa MacFarlane
It feels more exposing.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
I think than, I felt more exposed when there’s 80,000 people.
Alana MacFarlane
Yes definitely.
Elliot Moss
But there, there is a contradiction isn’t there because actually, and I just saw Mark Ronson talking about his new book and the intimacy and the privacy and the solitude actually of being a DJ, even in a big club, it’s kind of quite strong because that’s what you’re doing, you’re concentrating and you’re, you’re doing your thing and of course you’re, you’re reacting to the crowd. But then going out and talking about The Gut Stuff and amplifying for the last 8 years what you do in all the different ways, they are very different things.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah I think I guess like with, with the DJ side it was more of like a rehearsed performance if that made sense but unle…, apart from when we were doing like 5 hours when we first started out in like Whisky Mist in the West End um.
Lisa MacFarlane
We used to cry and ride the bus on the way there and cry on the night bus on the way home.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Because?
Lisa MacFarlane
Um, the manager used to shout at us to mix every 30 seconds for 5 hours like it was…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah, horrendous.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah. Uh but it was a great place to cut our teeth going from….
Alana MacFarlane
But great training ground for us.
Lisa MacFarlane
…it was a great training ground but I guess with The Gut Stuff it’s just different like, we are so passionate about getting the word out there and it’s like just speaking from, I don’t want to say from the heart, from the gut, I don’t know. It just feels….
Elliot Moss
It’s from within.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah, very, very different.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
There’s a different…
Lisa MacFarlane
It’s also like now 0.005% of our day-to-day is doing fun things like this like…
Elliot Moss
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
A lot of it is fun in the start-up which unfortunately has been glamorised a lot in the past few years.
Elliot Moss
But we know the truth.
Lisa MacFarlane
It’s hell.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
Um and as you know, sitting behind the P&L doing boring insurance forms.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah a lot of the time.
Lisa MacFarlane
4.16
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
For those people that don’t know about The Gut and, and my wife has had you know, health issues many years ago and then actually the gut was the way in for her many, many years ago, 20 years. Tell me in your own words and I’ve read a lot and I’m fascinated and I look at foods and Tim Spector’s a bit of a hero to me in terms of the work that he does. But in your own words, what is the gut and why is it important?
Lisa MacFarlane
I think you know, if you don’t know about gut health then you assume like we did that your gut is just your stomach.
Alana MacFarlane
Or your beer belly.
Lisa MacFarlane
But actually, yeah exactly what Tim…
Elliot Moss
What beer belly?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah exactly.
Elliot Moss
They got in early here, I can see what’s happening, thank you for that.
Lisa MacFarlane
Um, and Tim actually when we first asked, he was like do you want to have your guts analysed and we were like, we actually said, what do you mean our beer bellies. Um, but it’s a big piece of kit you know, it’s everything from mouth to bum and there’s a lot of organs involved and I guess the physical working of our gut is what we’re talking about um, partially when we talk about gut health but I think this new area of research into the microbium which is the bacteria hungry viruses that live in, around and on us but the reason that we associate a lot of them with the gut is because most of them live in our large intestine. It’s kind of dank, damp and moist there um and they like to hang out in there and not only do they help us digest and absorb food, they are linked to pretty much every health condition and outcome. With current medicine and, and I guess, it’s hard because it like difficult to explain the magnitude of the…
Elliot Moss
Yes.
Alana MacFarlane
Uh huh.
Lisa MacFarlane
…jobs that they do and the wellness side of them you know, yes we’ve, we’ve come to gut health and areas affected but there’s also you know, a lot of people, I think 46% of the UK population now have a digestive issue as well so it’s these, this double pronged thing of yes it’s a huge wellness trend and everyone needs to know about it but I think it is also going to be a crucial part in the future of our healthcare system.
Elliot Moss
I’m with Lisa and Alana MacFarlane and they are the Founders of The Gut Stuff and we are talking about what is the gut and of course it’s a big question and it’s got a big answer and it’s a big, it’s a big place. Why? Why was this so important to the two of you? Why, why were you so piqued and wanted to find out more and then were crazy enough to set up a business?
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah I guess we’re from you know, a Scottish working class background. Health was just not being ill and wellness was something that Gwyneth Paltrow talked about um you know.
Elliot Moss
And still does.
Lisa MacFarlane
And still does.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah and the average life expectancy you know, we are from Scotland is 58 for, for men and 52 I think even um so you know, health was, yeah was not on our agenda you know, if you told us when we were younger that we are going to have 7.04 for this you know, we’d asked what you had been smoking or drinking really. But as we went through the research you know, we were those people before we went through the research, clinical trials with Tim that the, the cabbage soup diet, the dukan diet, every fad diet you name it, we did it and health was just what was seen on the outside. Something that we did two weeks before we went on holiday and then we went to Magaluf and drank 40 litres of vodka so you know.
Elliot Moss
It sounds like my eldest daughter.
Alana MacFarlane
Yes.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah, what a girl.
Alana MacFarlane
She can be in our gang um and she might already 7.32 I promise.
Lisa MacFarlane
As we were going through the research you know, first of all we learned what our gut actually was and how important it was and these microbes you know, when we first started to learn about these microbes we were like, oh give me a bath, like we’re 80’s babies where’s the Dettol um you know, we were like this is really weird how did I not know for the first 25 years of my life that these beasties, we started calling them, I couldn’t be alive without them and you know, our chief science officer said, if an alien was to come down from outer space they’d actually see us all as hybrid creatures, so half human, half microbium. That is how many microbes live in, around and on us which is a scary thought when you don’t, you don’t, you don’t know yet right. So we were like (a) why does no one know about this, this was 10 years ago so at the time people were not talking about gut health like they are now.
Elliot Moss
No.
Lisa MacFarlane
People are like, you two have lost the plot.
Elliot Moss
Yeah there was no Zoe, there was no Tim Spector, there was no sense of anything.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
There was, no and the public awareness was zero really.
Lisa MacFarlane
There was like I guess Kellogg’s and Danone and like…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah and digestive health.
Lisa MacFarlane
…food brands claiming digestive health.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
And then I guess the conversations that were starting to happen were in certain publications or in the back of health food stores when people are trying to charge like £6 for a jar of cabbage, you’re like, it’s sauerkraut but it’s just cabbage in a jar um, so we were like but people that need this information most aren’t getting it and we want to democratise this information and also we were DJ’ing on Love Island at the time and we were like, imagine if we can get the people watching the show to start thinking about the inside out, rather than the outside in.
Elliot Moss
And in a way that’s, for me that’s the leap. That’s the crazy leap which says, hold on a minute, there’s this thing which is as, we were talking about elite and specialist and then there’s this massive need, millions and millions, the whole population Lisa, what if we use the…, you know…
Lisa MacFarlane
Amazing.
Elliot Moss
…but naively but brilliantly too and yet neither of you went to Uni; one was dancer, which one was…
Alana MacFarlane
Yes.
Elliot Moss
Alana danced…
Alana MacFarlane
Yes.
Lisa MacFarlane
Alana dance school.
Elliot Moss
I think theatre producer.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
You went to drama school. You’ve come back to something quite academic.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah, I guess I was meant to do law and business at Uni and Lisa was meant to do medicine.
Elliot Moss
And how did that go down when you…
Lisa MacFarlane
We changed our UCAS forms.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah, I mean…
Lisa MacFarlane
That was a…
Elliot Moss
What happened?
Lisa and Alana MacFarlane
That was a 9.32.
Elliot Moss
What made you both do it?
Lisa MacFarlane
I think we just knew that we could always come back to academia at some point. I mean we got, I mean I did physics and chemistry at you know A level, got straight A’s and then was like I’m going to drama school, bye, bye. Mum and dad were like, no. First people in the family to go to Uni and I’m like no.
Lana MacFarlane
Literally the first people in the family to go to Uni.
Elliot Moss
And then, and then not.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
But then yeah so when we die our obituaries will look like it was planned but it wasn’t.
Lisa MacFarlane
It definitely wasn’t.
Alana MacFarlane
Uh, but I think maybe our like naturally, our sort of curiosity and I think when we started going through the process with Tim, he was like, you guys asked so many questions. Um, but I think it sort of scratched that science itch and I think our life must have just brought us back that way because we wanted to use that part of our brains that wasn’t you know, as much as we loved it, being used DJ’ing.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah
Elliot Moss
And we are going to catch up and find out exactly what that looks like in terms of setting up a business which was obviously the ridiculous thing that you chose to do.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Why didn’t you just carry on asking questions? Anyway, Lisa and Alana will be answering that um, very shortly when they will be back in a few minutes. Right now though we are going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Innovation Series which you can find on all the major podcast platforms. Lydia Kellett invites business founders to share their practical advice and industry insights for those of you, thinking about starting your very own thing. As crazy as that might be. In this clip we hear from Dr Max Munford, Co-founder and CEO of OSSTEC, the med tech company on a mission to transform orthopaedic surgery through cutting edge 3D printing technology.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers, I think there’s around 500 of them now on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice. That’s pretty easy isn’t it. My guests today are Lisa and Alana MacFarlane, Founders of The Gut Stuff, a multi-industry platform – that’s a bit of a mouthful isn’t it – democratising gut health education. So we’ve established you’re both very curious, you’re the Whyberts, you’re asking what, what, what, what, what. You’re academic but you chose not to go to Uni. But then you decided to set your own business up. The glamour of Love Island was not enough. The allure of the Olympics wasn’t big, big enough for these two. What happened in those early days and months? What went through your head? Did you think we’ve made a massive error here or was it like, no, no, we’re clear, this is, this is for us?
Alana MacFarlane
I think I missed the early days of the hustle that we had nothing to lose. I think fast forward to now you know, we’ve got other people’s mortgages to pay, we have investors to talk you know, to answer to and we’re on the train that we can’t get off basically.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
You know, there’s not a day off you know, we’ve grown exponentially over the last year or two that there’s nothing we can do to stop it.
Elliot Moss
Do, do you take time out though. We talk about wellness and you’re in a wellness business, Alana seriously when do you, when do you stop?
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah we’re not good at it.
Lisa MacFarlane
We don’t.
Alana MacFarlane
Um…
Elliot Moss
But you know you’re not.
Alana MacFarlane
…we know that you’re naturally not go… like we’re Duracell bunnies like, everyone that meets us like you know, I can’t stop. I don’t enjoy it.
Elliot Moss
But when you do stop do you, I mean what happens, are you kind of on or off? Are you literally fall asleep and the rest is go?
Alana MacFarlane
Yes, yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
And we sleep well so I think that’s probably it like, you know.
Lisa MacFarlane
We have Martini’s, we love a martini.
Alana MacFarlane
That’s our gut health.
Elliot Moss
Which, which particular Martini #whocaresaboutbugs.
Lisa and Alana MacFarlane
12.23 (overtalking)
Elliot Moss
Dirty Martinis.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah filth, filth.
Lisa MacFarlane
Filth.
Elliot Moss
Filthy Martini
Alana MacFarlane
I’ve actually moved more into, because I’ve not got a partner in crime now because Lisa’s pregnant, I’ve moved more into lemon twist.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
With a lemon twist is lovely.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Got a bit of zing to it.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
But we used to do…
Elliot Moss
Apparently.
Alana MacFarlane
…like yeah, so my husband works at night, he’s in the West End and Lisa’s husband works away a lot so I used to go down to Lisa’s at the weekend and we’d just spend time with each other and the kids.
Elliot Moss
Drinking.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah well we used to have, we used to say like, I think that’s really important like, having a Co-Founder is brilliant.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
But it also means that our sister relationship came second so like our sister relationship came second to the business so we had to carve out time to just talk about normal sisterly stuff, mainly arguing probably.
Elliot Moss
But do you, do you talk about sisterly stuff?
Alana MacFarlane
Well we always say we’d start with a Margarita and by Margarita three, we’re back to talking about the company.
Elliot Moss
Really.
Lisa MacFarlane
Um, so we try.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
Uh, I think the kid’s sort of help dilute…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah we talk about the kids more.
Lisa MacFarlane
…that um, but you know and, and like at the start of the journey we were so naïve like, uh it was like brilliantly naïve how, and I think that you know, how we’ve built the business was out of yeah, I guess there’s you know, the FMCG business was borne out of doing the services and education and things like that but I think we would have been so paralysed we would never have started and I think…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah we did go, knowing what we know now, if we went, would we do food and drink again?
Lisa MacFarlane
Oh my god um but now…
Alana MacFarlane
13.45 and high volume products.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
In Covid, no.
Lisa MacFarlane
Um, and to be for the masses you know, we were never going to be this luxury product that people were spending £80 for right. We knew we had to be affordable, accessible for everyone because that was our mission. But that takes a hell of a long time to get, you’ve got to a stage of critical mass which we now have with Tesco and Sainsbury’s and Co-op but you know, to get there has been a journey and I think yeah, I think we were just so gung ho, wonderfully gung ho and naïve that I think if we knew what we know now, you know, of course we’d do it again but you know, yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
A rollercoaster.
Elliot Moss
I’m going to talk about, but there’s a rollercoaster and you’re on the ride and you still kind of enjoy the ride to a point. I’ll ask about levels of enjoyment out of 10 but not for now, in just a moment. Um, I want to talk about the gung ho thing and how that’s informed how you actually brought this thing to life because I think it’s a really important part of the, of the strategy. If we’re going to call it a strategy, the thing you’ve done.
To me, the way you brought this brand to life, the way that you articulated what it was all about has been key. Just talk to me a little bit about that gung ho’ness as it were and the sorts of things that you did?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah I guess like you know, we had the brand before the business so we were able to do and say a lot more than if we’d led with product which I think that can be quite constraining because you have different sets of regulations is you know, the lawyers amongst us will know. Um, but I think we were able to be bold and the only people that we had to answer to was…
Alana MacFarlane
Each other.
Lisa MacFarlane
Each other and the ASA.
Elliot Moss
The Advertising Standards Authority.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Did they try?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah they did…
Elliot Moss
They didn’t like the word poo?
Lisa MacFarlane
They…
Alana MacFarlane
No they were alright with that, it was um, we had a campaign that was meant to be on bus stops that put it in the BS bin type thing um and it was like cut the...
Elliot Moss
Whatever.
Alana MacFarlane
…this January.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
And so yeah, they didn’t like that.
Lisa MacFarlane
And do you know we actually the, the poo posters came up, my husband and I over Christmas dinner and he was like, I think you just need to put the Bristol Stool chart on bus stops and name the poo’s really funny names.
Elliot Moss
The Bristol Stool Chart, that reminds me of…
Lisa MacFarlane
Um and that’s what we did.
Elliot Moss
Ah love that.
Lisa MacFarlane
And then suddenly we won so many awards.
Alana MacFarlane
Awards because of our media.
Lisa MacFarlane
And I think that, I would love to try and… but we just can’t there is too big now but that naivety and just being like, well we can do that or we’ll just go into that retailer. Well one retailer that was on our list who then we’d basically got a friend that worked to put stool posters on the back of the toilets and just like asked the catering staff to, to do that and you know, like there was that, that sort of…
Elliot Moss
Attitude.
Lisa MacFarlane
Hustle.
Elliot Moss
And that being more maverick. Now that you’re much bigger, much harder to be gung ho. How do you channel your creativity, how do you make stuff happen even though you’re a much bigger business now?
Lisa MacFarlane
I think we annoy everyone in the team because they are working on something and we’re like, well what about this? And let’s do that and…
Elliot Moss
So you haven’t lost that energy?
Lisa MacFarlane
No, I think we…
Alana MacFarlane
No we did actually check ourselves.
Lisa MacFarlane
We have like bottoms in the Co-op – no ifs or buts, no ifs or buts and it was a balloon bum.
Alana MacFarlane
A balloon bum…
Lisa MacFarlane
In the bottom of the…
Alana MacFarlane
So they are now in Court.
Lisa MacFarlane
So yeah we do get, we do get a chance to yeah…
Alana MacFarlane
Have the creative.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah be cheeky um.
Alana MacFarlane
But I think it’s an attitudinal thing and I think like the values we have as a business is not being scared to be in the room with the big guys and I think…
Lisa MacFarlane
And gals.
Alana MacFarlane
….that was hopefully, guys and gals um of course. Um that is something I hope we’ve instilled in the team is that, don’t be afraid to pitch that or say that or sit in a room with people and ask for what you feel like you deserve.
Lisa MacFarlane
And I think when you’re mission led, it’s not about us, it’s not about you know, how much product we shift like this is a mission that needs to happen you know, we have you know, it is so, so important for the health of the nation and I think when you have that as the backstop and the fire in your belly.
Elliot Moss
It drives you.
Lisa MacFarlane
You’ll ask anything
Elliot Moss
Yeah. Final chat with my guests today, Lisa and Alana and we’ve got a treat from Ann Peebles, that’s in just a moment, don’t go anywhere.
I’ve got a few more minutes with the people that have been on my case, well I’ve been on your case, that’s Lisa and Alana MacFarlane, they’re the Founders of The Gut Stuff. There’s an energy that you two have which is obviously just I assume nature as much as nurture. How do you chill out? When do you stop? And if you don’t, if you don’t, how do you make sure that you maintain happiness and joy?
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah we need to get better at it but I think we are very social beasts, we’re very loyal, our friendship group is yeah, we are very close.
Lisa MacFarlane
Very close.
Alana MacFarlane
And um, so we talk about like switching off, we go to the pub and talk about, in Scotland we call it the ‘yibsey yabsies’ but it’s basically talking about everything and nothing. Um and that is I guess our way of switching off but we’re not very good at switching off and doing nothing, we sort of switch by doing so we did this thing, we took the team Forest Bathing. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it? It’s Japanese.
Elliot Moss
Forest bathing?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah, it’s like a Japanese…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah um, the art of Forest bathing but anyway you go round this, it’s almost like meditating. When I have to meditate, if someone asks me to meditate I do not, I cannot do it, I cannot sit still. Whereas this is more going around in nature really noticing the beauty of things, notice how things move and using all your senses and we really, really enjoyed it and all the team really enjoyed it as well so I think I’d sort of switch off by doing.
Lisa MacFarlane
And the kids slow us down you know, they’re, they’re you know, you’ve got to keep them alive and…
Elliot Moss
To, to, you’ve got to keep them alive, you’ve got to make sure you water them and feed them.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah. But actually…
Elliot Moss
So you’ve got two kids between you but we’ve also, we’ve also got…
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…uh…
Lisa MacFarlane
Imminently yeah another boy on the way.
Alana MacFarlane
And my, Lisa’s son was due on my daughter’s birthday. Totally weird.
Lisa MacFarlane
And they’re, they’re genetically half brother and sister.
Elliot Moss
Are they really?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah. So they’re cousins but…
Lisa MacFarlane
They are cousins.
Elliot Moss
That’s spooky.
Lisa MacFarlane
…they are genetically half brother and sister yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
And they genuinely love each other…
Lisa MacFarlane
Oh.
Alana MacFarlane
…so much.
Lisa MacFarlane
It’s really cute.
Elliot Moss
And I should say, if you haven’t already looked Lisa and Alana up, you will not have realised they are twins. Uh, I, I…
Lisa MacFarlane
We are.
Elliot Moss
…didn’t say at the beginning but you are twins um, and that in itself is a thing when you work together.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah. Well I guess we are very, very different like, opposites I would say but that helps in the business because we’re actually mirror twins so Lisa’s left side of her brain, like Lisa’s very creative.
Lisa MacFarlane
I think it’s the right side…
Alana MacFarlane
Right okay.
Lisa MacFarlane
…that’s creative yeah.
Alana MacFarlane
Very creative, was always really good at English at school and I like doing all the sort of, yeah I am very matter of fact, binary.
Lisa MacFarlane
Ops, numbers.
Elliot Moss
Right.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah um the boring stuff we would say um.
Elliot Moss
Do you switch though, do you switch roles occasionally?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah we’ve just, we’ve just, so I am starting doing more of the finance stuff. We’ve got a finance director and I guess as you grow, finance becomes more of a narrative than numbers especially when you have a finance director that can give you them. So I am better at shaping that narrative and conversation now…
Alana MacFarlane
And Lisa does a lot more of the fun things and fundraising.
Lisa MacFarlane
…and I do. So we’re just gearing up for.
Alana MacFarlane
I do the day-to-day.
Elliot Moss
Because again we were talking about the DJ’ing thing and at one point you were talking about who runs the desk and who’s doing more of the talking and all that but actually in this conversation it is, as I, as I said to you, I’m talking to one person. I don’t mean that in a weird way.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
But there’s a, there’s a little river running and we’re just going left and right but it feels.
Lisa MacFarlane
Well mum always says we’re halfwits because the head split.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
So together…
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
…we would be a super human.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
But yeah, we just take half each.
Alana MacFarlane
Or she says, it’s like being at the tennis, it’s exhausting.
Lisa MacFarlane
Thank you mother.
Elliot Moss
So that, the, the relaxing bit is actually through conversation, it’s through…
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…it’s through connection.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yes.
Elliot Moss
It’s through, it’s through doing stuff together rather than not doing anything at all?
Lisa MacFarlane
Yes, yes.
Elliot Moss
And that’s…
Lisa MacFarlane
We couldn’t just lie on the sofa and watch Netflix.
Elliot Moss
And what’s next for this business? What happens in the, in the ideal world?
Lisa MacFarlane
Well it’s all the nuts and bolts stuff like we’re launching new MBD in January, the team is growing by the day um, we’re gearing up for the Series 8, once I’ve got the baby out and had a night’s sleep which…
Alana MacFarlane
Isn’t going to happen.
Lisa MacFarlane
…is a moveable feast, um and I guess generally like we, and you know, moving into new territory, there’s a lot of problems in the US etcetera, etcetera but for us um, trying to keep the core of what we started and democratising gut health and really staying true to that mission as we grow feels like a bigger task than the growth bit I think.
Elliot Moss
Mm.
Lisa MacFarlane
Like because being true to why we started it and I think keeping checks on ourselves is really important as well in terms of the decisions that we make. We started it with a purpose and I think that you can lose sight of that when it gets exciting and it starts to grow so I think that’s the main thing yeah.
Elliot Moss
Very clear.
Lisa MacFarlane
Trying to get some sleep, that’s the.
Elliot Moss
Yeah you’re going to need some sleep. I would start getting that bank full uh because it’s already going to get tricky.
Lisa MacFarlane
The third trimester just doesn’t serve that. My son’s still young so he’s still get noise. I am like how many teeth come, like how is he still getting teeth. How many sleep reversions does he need? For god’s sake.
Elliot Moss
Innumerable unfortunately.
Lisa MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
And the teeth will stop at some point. And then there’ll be something else.
Alana MacFarlane
And there’ll be something else.
Elliot Moss
The joy,
Lisa MacFarlane
Then it’s the psychological warfare of having teenagers and children.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Yeah, welcome to my world too. It’s been brilliant talking to both of you, thank you. Thank you both so much for your time. Just before I let you disappear, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Alana MacFarlane
So we’ve got a bit of a random story behind this but we basically when we first started presenting were flown to Nashville by um, Jack Daniels and we uh, were taken to yeah, this random place in Nashville and Steve Cropper who co-wrote Sitting on the Dock of the Bay which is our song choice, was there.
Lisa MacFarlane
We watched him live and sat next to him for the signing.
Alana MacFarlane
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Wow.
Lisa MacFarlane
Um…
Alana MacFarlane
At the time we were like, what… and our dad was alive at the time and we were sort of messaging him going like, sending videos and he was like, this is insane.
Elliot Moss
It is insane.
Alana MacFarlane
Like you don’t, you two don’t known how lucky you are.
Lisa MacFarlane
But it was our first time we’d been paid to like go anywhere as well.
Alana MacFarlane
We thought that was what our career was going to be like, it was going to be like that all the time and then obviously you hit the reality and you have to DJ for £50 for seven hours um but yeah.
Lisa MacFarlane
It was the start of us really believing that two wee working class girls from Scotland could yeah, could do something with their lives I think and that was like a real catalyst for us, that moment.
Elliot Moss
Otis Redding there with Sitting on the Dock of the Bay, the song choice of my Business Shapers, Lisa and Alana MacFarlane. I loved how they talked about their own brand, wonderfully gung ho and not just the brand of course but them as people and their personalities and what that brought to and has, continues to bring to the business. Don’t be afraid to sit in the room with the big guys and gals, that point about as you’re growing as a business you’ve got to have that inner confidence that you’re in the right place and you deserve a seat at the table. And finally, how do you manage the stress? Well people do it differently, they talk with their friends, close friends and family, the yibsey yabsies as they said and that’s what they would have said in Scotland, that’s how they do it, talking over a drink, often a dry Martini in a bar or a pub somewhere nice. Great stuff. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
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