Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers, with me Elliot Moss bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today I am extremely pleased to say is serial entrepreneur, Heather Frankham, Founder of Lifetime Training, an apprenticeship provider and Origin Workspace, a co-working space and she’s the Founder of Bud, an apprenticeship management company. Beginning her career as a PE teacher, it was through teaching adults aerobics in the evenings that Heather was offered a contract covering the gym and fitness programmes for the Whitbread Hospitality Group. Having asked her to consult on Whitbread’s apprenticeship training programme and seeing a growth opportunity in the market, Heather Founded a Bristol base Lifetime Training in 1995, a training specialist. Starting as a sole trader she grew the business into one of the largest apprenticeships and skills training businesses in the UK with a team of more than 1000 people delivering training to the fitness, leisure, hospitality and care sectors. After exiting 2016, Heather set up Origin Workspace, a Bristol co-working hub aiming to foster collaboration, innovation and wellbeing with profits reinvested into the Origin Foundation supporting local charities focussed on giving young people the best possible start.
What a life Heather Frankham. I felt like saying, This Is Your Life but it isn’t, that is a reference if you are of a certain age, there’s a red book and it’s Eamonn Andrews but, but seriously wow. So many things. I meet lots of people and obviously we are going to get into this but let’s start somewhere. You became a teacher, why?
Heather Frankham
Oh I did. First of all I wanted to be a doctor actually and that was my initial passion and I was sort of following sciences at school with that goal in mind. During my time at school I got invited to sort of help, help teach in the PE Department and I really loved it and for me that being able to make a difference to people, seeing that connection you know, often people that came in not, not happy and not buzzy but actually you could do something with them and send them out with that energy and, and enthusiasm for other things. And I think that’s, that’s part of what took me into teaching; I wanted to make that difference and make that difference to young people. I think I was lucky enough to have some amazing experiences at school but also some not so amazing experiences at school and to feel that, that difference. So I went in very idealistically I guess as a teacher believing that things could be done better.
Elliot Moss
A lot of kids from where you came from did not go to secondary school and then a lot kids you know, they did other things. How come you ended up in that place that you did? Was that a family thing?
Heather Frankham
Yeah I, I think um…
Elliot Moss
Because working class background.
Heather Frankham
Yeah absolutely you know, my, both of my parents were bright and had to strive through life to achieve things. My dad had polio when he was younger and was in hospital for two years and so was always catching up but his determination, he, he couldn’t use his left arm but I never saw my dad as different when I was growing up because he always sought to do everything that everybody else was doing whether that was riding a bike, playing golf one handed and, and so that I think set a pathway for me, it was always about what you could do, not what you couldn’t do and so ‘I can’t’ was not allowed in our family you know, there was always the way to be able to do something and to achieve something.
Elliot Moss
You mentioned something in school before I go on to the moment when I think I read somewhere that you said, ‘I kind of wanted a sports car, I realised that I couldn’t do that teaching’. What were those not so good experiences at school you mentioned them, what, I’d be really interested to know what it was that wasn’t so good and how has that informed your world for you?
Heather Frankham
I think as children go through a certain age it’s, it’s all about establishing identity and for me being in a school, there was an awful lot that was about trying to get people to conform and I think children can actually be quite mean to each other at times so and you know, what you’re wearing and whether that’s the right thing or not the right thing. And that influence is hugely what you are able to do within that school so that the school I was in, it was not cool to actually be bright and do well in things and so there was always that sort of tension between do you get on, do you, do you really focus on what you’re doing and achieve or do you conform and actually fit in to the, the group and the norms that were actually expected and…
Elliot Moss
Which one were you?
Heather Frankham
So I bounced between the two. So you know, I would try to do both of those things to, to achieve but also to fit into a group and that’s quite a challenge.
Elliot Moss
But you spotted, you needed to in a way, you were kind of ambidextrous.
Heather Frankham
The, absolutely.
Elliot Moss
Like hold on a minute there’s a moment when I do need to be conventional and there’s another moment say if I do that I’m suppressing who I really am.
Heather Frankham
Mm, yeah. And, and actually that is one of the things I think for entrepreneurs, it, you’ve always got two different drivers so for me that, there was a belief that you could make a difference and that you could succeed but I guess on the flip side of that, there was always that fear of failure.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Heather Frankham
And I think that those bits of juggling different agendas, different things in life if you embrace it and step into that actually it can help you to achieve the best bit in the middle.
Elliot Moss
Well this is, and, and it’s funny you say that, so then I go back to my point about the teacher who becomes a business person and obviously in the world of learning…
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…so there is a link but at what moment did you go, I’m going, you know obviously the Whitbread thing happened and you were offered this, this opportunity. Firstly what did they see in you? And secondly, what did you see in yourself as years went by when you must have started to believe that actually you were going to be a successful entrepreneur?
Heather Frankham
Um, what did they see in me? I am not quite sure what they saw in me, they probably saw somebody that was very determined to achieve something. So that sort of quiet confidence about actually we can do something here and not willing to sort of step back when challenges were put in place. So with Whitbread for example, how did I get to apprenticeships, I got apprenticeships because we’d started a journey which was all about training and developing their staff, they loved what was happening but then all of a sudden budgets got cut so you know, I was forced, you know I had just started this business, really exciting in the fitness industry, it was a fantastic environment to be in and then all of a sudden the person paying the bills was saying, ‘we would love to do more of this but we don’t have a budget for it’ and so it was then that I went out and found that budget through education and skills and the apprenticeships had just started at the time so learnt a whole new sort of vocabulary around funded training and yeah, qualifications in the further education space and bought those two together to be able to deliver what Whitbread wanted – so that commercial drive from there but also marry that with I guess Government agendas and funding agendas and how do you bring those together to, to achieve what you want to achieve.
Elliot Moss
The jigsaw was put together…
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…by Heather Frankham which is what entrepreneurs do really well, spot patterns and then go and actually make it real. We’re going to be finding out much more from Heather about this unusual combination of skills that she has, this ability to juggle. Much more coming up from her shortly. Right now we are going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Innovation Series which can be found on all the major podcast platforms. Lydia Kellett invites business founders to share their industry insights and practical advice for those of you thinking directly about getting into an industry and starting your very own thing. In this clip focussed on the EdTech industry we hear from Chris Kahlar, Co-founder and CEO of Kinnu, a gamified learning app designed to increase the rate of knowledge acquisition.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice, we are super agnostic here on Jazz Shapers. My guest today is serial entrepreneur, Heather Frankham, Founder of Lifetime Training, an apprenticeship provider and Origin Workspace, a co-working space, I mean it’s a ridiculous list ever, can you just have done less? And she is the Co-Founder of Bud, an apprenticeship management company. That’s not including the philanthropic stuff which we are going to come to or the Asian investing that we’re going to come on to and probably a million other things as well. So there’s not enough, maybe we’ll do a daylong session with you Heather. I want to go back to the sale of Lifetime Training, I think you sold the business in 2016, so it’s a while ago…
Heather Frankham
I did.
Elliot Moss
…now. Anyone I’ve ever spoken to and I’ve spoken to, I’ve had the privilege of speaking to many people, talks about the emotional rollercoaster that is the sale of a business. You’re here 9 years later, usually the benefit of times softens the emotions. If you can cast your mind back though, what were the two or three things that were going around at that moment? And what’s lasted?
Heather Frankham
I, I think the lucky bit for me was that I had a period of time from partially selling the business where I moved from CEO to Exec Chair to Non Exec Chair and then to Non Exec Director and I had 5 years really to prepare for exiting the business so I always knew that I was going to exit alongside private equity and it was how I got there. And I went through lots of different emotions I guess during that time as you step back from what has been your baby which has been such a key part of your life and, and actually that shaped who you were to go, well actually who am I now. So if I’m not, if that business is not me.
Elliot Moss
If you’re not in charge of a 1000 people and 40 million pounds of turnover or whatever it might be, who is Heather?
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
And who was Heather or who is Heather?
Heather Frankham
And it took me a while to actually to work through and find that out and I you know, I thought that I would be able to you know, I went away with that dream of saying, I would love to put some money into charity and to support new entrepreneurs because that was my skillset, I was a teacher and I believed I had lots of patience and actually that was the most challenging thing in the world to do. So as an entrepreneur that had built this business, it was actually really difficult to find the right businesses to invest in and to understand that. I always wanted a charitable donation to do more than just a finite amount of things. It was always about how you could actually scale that and make that sustainable and I think probably if I look back what’s inside of me, it’s that I’m always interested in how you scale and how you sustain things so that you can keep those going and they don’t just stop when an initial project or something has actually finished.
Elliot Moss
I read somewhere that you lost your mum very young, I think you were 31 which is, you know I lost my dad a couple of years ago and you know, I’m in my 50s and still you know, you don’t, there’s not a day that goes by where it doesn’t really hit you and you know, you’re able at this age to cope with that much better but at 30, 31, you don’t have that life experience and I read also that you thought about just sort of stopping whatever you were doing. How did you decide not to or why did you decide not to and what did that experience give you?
Heather Frankham
Um, as you go through you know, as you will know from your own experience losing a parent is hugely challenging especially when you’re still shaping yourself and, and learning who you are but what I will always remember is you know, I had huge gifts from my mum and she was always so intuitive actually about seeing things and you know, she, she always had those insights at the right times so I remember talking to her as she was going through chemotherapy at the time and I’d had a really, really challenging day and was worried about what competitors were doing and we just didn’t have the financial resources to do the same level of advertising and everything else and she, she just sort of very quietly said, ‘it’s all you can do is to do your best and to put that energy into something, you can’t control what they do but do your best and it might go wrong, but actually if you know you’ve put your all into something then you know, that, that’s all you can do’ and actually after she died I, yeah I was very close to actually could I, did I have the energy to keep the business going, we were in a challenging position from a cash perspective but I, I took myself away on holiday to make that decision and I either had to put the small amount of money, she had left me £10,000 into the business to pay the salaries at the end of the month or I needed to fold the business and I went away on holiday, I took six books away on my own with a view that I needed to make that decision while I was away and I didn’t read any of the books, I think I might have read six pages because the people that I met on that holiday were just, that connection with others and then just remembering on the way back on the plane what my mum had said of ‘all you can do is to do your best’ and, and that fired me to say, I am going to put that money into the business and I will do my best to pull this business through and make a success of it. So it was her words really that took me through that challenging time and a great team that were actually around me and, and being able to say to them, ‘I can’t promise I am going to be at my best at the moment but we are going to do this’ and by pulling together and you really see the power of a team then to support each other and, and to support me as a leader as well.
Elliot Moss
And we are going to find out what you did with that money and you’ve been doing great things. That’s all in my final chat with my guest today, Heather Frankham and we’ve got some Jacob Collier for you too, that’s in just a moment.
Heather Frankham is my Business Shaper, just for a few more minutes. I talked about the money up front, this realisation that the teacher sort of wanted to drive a sports car and being slightly simplistic...
Heather Frankham
Yes.
Elliot Moss
…about it. You made a fair amount of money I imagine selling your business. What did that make you feel? Was there anything visceral that happened to you when you suddenly realised you were you know, you weren’t, you didn’t have the same level of wealth as you did beforehand. Part 1 a short answer and then I’ll ask, I want to ask you a second question. Was it tangible to you?
Heather Frankham
Was it tangible? I think the most important thing for me is I was a single mum and it gave me that security for my daughter. So, so that enabled me to stop worrying and one of the reasons I initially partially sold the business was having that young daughter and having sort of built the asset within the business but not necessarily having the cash side, it was about I, I was becoming, I was becoming more risk adverse and, and actually by being able to take some money off the table to set that aside so that I knew that I had that sort of rainy day pot and that her future was secure enabled me to be a better business person. So that was my drive for doing that.
Elliot Moss
Okay so there was a security kind of feeling around over there.
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
And then almost liberating you again to go take risks?
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
So, and then just and I know I’ve simplified that but in, then in terms of wanting to do good things with the money, you’ve done a whole bunch of stuff and lots of philanthropic things, even the latest, the Bud Systems, Origin Workspace, you take the profits as I understand them and you recycle them. They go in…
Heather Frankham
Just from Origin.
Elliot Moss
From Origin into then giving essentially money that will have an impact on local communities…
Heather Frankham
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…young people and the like. Is that the teacher back in you again? Is philanthropy for you a way of teaching?
Heather Frankham
When…
Elliot Moss
Beyond the money obviously, everyone, every charity and as a Trustee of a Charity I know, we, we need money to do things but I think what does it mean for you? What’s the impact, what’s the meaning for Heather specifically?
Heather Frankham
Don’t get me wrong, the money enables you to do things that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to do so it has given me that opportunity to explore different places and all those lovely, lovely things but in the end I, I guess I was always bought up to never be showy so, so you know if you ever got too big for your boots that was very quickly brought back down and I guess genuinely money will not bring you happiness. It enables you to do things and I am hugely privileged to be able to do those things but it’s actually connection with people and, and being able to do something with other people with a common vision, with a common mission and, and to see that look on people’s faces when you can make that difference. So for me in Lifetime, the Learner Achievement Awards that we held was always my favourite day of the year. It reminded you that why. Why do we do this you know, when you hear some of the stories about the impact that you’ve been able to make on people’s lives and change what they’re doing, how wonderful is that. It’s, it truly is such a privilege.
Elliot Moss
And that for me, that sounds like that’s the biggest thing for you. The biggest driver is the impact you can have and the privilege that you feel being able to make the impact?
Heather Frankham
Yes and, and to have fun along the way and that connection and so, so I said at the beginning I have loved my entrepreneurial journey, it really has been a privilege and it’s been a privilege because of the people that I am working alongside. So having connection with people that you’ve got shared values with and, and then being able to make a difference you know, how wonderful is it to be doing a job that’s so much more than a job actually, it brings so much reward.
Elliot Moss
It’s been brilliant talking to you Heather, thank you, I’m really pleased we smoked you out of the cave. She came. We’ve been wanting to speak to Heather for a long time but like a lot of great people, the mantra of never be showy was probably the one ringing in your ears, saying well do I really need to come and talk about this. I am really pleased you have and I think a lot of people will think what a great thing to do, to be an entrepreneur and to be able to have positive impact. This is what it’s about to me at least. Just before I let you disappear back, back into the distance to do amazing things, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Heather Frankham
So I’ve chosen a song that I remember listening to lots when I was young and, and I guess when I was sort of going into that teaching career and it’s Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, Wake Up Everybody and I chose it today because I guess as you read the news today there is, there is so many Wars, challenges and as I was sort of listening through several songs to choose one today, the words in this one I think resonated yeah. Wake Up Everybody.
Elliot Moss
Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass with Wake Up Everybody, the song choice of my Business Shaper today Heather Frankham. She was taught as a child it was all about what you can do and not what you can’t do. She worked out that she needed to both conform at school and not conform and the importance of juggling those agendas and how that served her well as an entrepreneur. She talked about how important scale and sustaining things were to her as a person in the world and in the world of business specifically and finally, that lovely thought about never be showy and how that’s really informed how she behaves and how she holds herself in the world. Great stuff. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that addition of Jazz Shapers, you’ll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search ‘Jazz Shapers’ in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.