Elliot Moss
That was Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga with I Get a Kick Out of You. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is serial entrepreneur and incredibly dapper too, Giles Fuchs, founder and chairman of Office Space in Town, the flexible workplace provider, and the founder of no or low alcohol brand, Gunner Cocktails and a lot more besides. Hoping to prove to his dad that failing his A-levels wouldn’t define him, Giles aged eighteen, knocked on the door of the biggest estate chain in Northamptonshire and said, “I will be the best negotiator you’ve ever had.” Just a year later he launched his own estate agency with a friend with their success leading to other profitable ventures such as a disaster recovery company, who knew. In 2009 Giles and his sister Niki co-founded what would become one of London’s leading flexible office providers, Office Space in Town, “a hotel of offices”, as Giles describes it, offering themed design-led offices and meeting rooms as well as bedrooms, kitchens and gyms. And Giles just kept diversify, he couldn’t stop himself, after seeing bar tenders at sports events struggle to meet the demand for Gunner cocktails, once a popular recipe during the jazz age you may know, Giles saw the need to put it in a tin and created the Gunner Cocktails brand. And in 2018 he bought the iconic Burgh Island Hotel and indeed the island it sits on. His aim, to restore the hotel to an exemplary preservation of the art deco style while enhancing its ecofriendly initiatives. Try saying that after a couple. I’ll be talking to Giles imminently and the music in today’s Jazz Shapers comes from Manu Dibango, O.V. Wright, Madeleine Peyroux and here’s Cannonball Adderley with The Sticks.
I love Cannonball Adderley and I love The Sticks. Giles Fuchs is my Business Shaper today and if you were listening just a moment ago and I know you were, you would go, “Wow! Wow Giles”, that’s what you would say because there’s so many things, so many things for this, I rarely have to use the phrase “serial entrepreneur” but it’s true. How come? Is Mr Giles just a bon viveur, a lover of life and can’t help himself?
Giles Fuchs
I can’t, I get bored really easily.
Elliot Moss
Do you?
Giles Fuchs
Maybe that’s that it is. Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Have you always got bored really easily?
Giles Fuchs
I have. As we know, I was rubbish at school and I think it’s all part of the same thing. I concentrate for a bit and like it, I really, and I get really involved as well so, anything I do, have to do to the, the umpteen percentile and that, that’s good and bad but I think the serial entrepreneur or is it cereal bar, I’m not quite sure, but the serial entrepreneur is that lack of attention, I need to move on and do something. Interestingly, or maybe not interestingly but funnily I thought, I was having dinner with my two girls a few weeks ago and I said, “Oh isn’t it funny someone said to me the other day, ‘Giles, you’ve got ADHD’ and then went, ‘Dad, really?’”
Elliot Moss
No! Really, dad.
Giles Fuchs
…did you, did you not know?’” and then they read out a whole list of what ADHD is. I went, “Yeah well, oh, maybe.”
Elliot Moss
But it’s a superpower isn’t it and I’ve had lots of people who, who are younger and of course have been quote unquote “diagnosed” and as people of a certain generation, you and me, we didn’t have labels, people just told us to shut up quite a lot I think as children or “Stop jumping to the front of the queue Moss” I had a number of times and it wasn’t that we were being naughty, we were just ebullient and we had energy.
Giles Fuchs
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
And you’ve still got the energy.
Giles Fuchs
I do, I do. I have to say though, Elliot, being in a, being in the studio with you is giving me even more energy so I’m going to, I’m trying to rein myself…
Elliot Moss
No, no, I don’t…
Giles Fuchs
Rein myself, rein myself back.
Elliot Moss
We want no regulation here, this is a deregulated sort of.
Giles Fuchs
A deregulated zone.
Elliot Moss
Deregulated zone.
Giles Fuchs
Watch out.
Elliot Moss
So, so, so you said you know, again for those people that may know a little bit about Giles, he has, he has one A-level.
Giles Fuchs
I think two.
Elliot Moss
I think you did get an A-level and it was an E.
Giles Fuchs
An E.
Elliot Moss
It was an E.
Giles Fuchs
Well yeah.
Elliot Moss
E for excellent.
Giles Fuchs
You have looked up.
Elliot Moss
Yeah. And that, that whole, and again I’ve over the years I’ve been lucky enough to meet a whole plethora of people from those people who are Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard and MBAs and the like and then people that just left school and said, “what a waste of time”. Have you become more interested in learning as you’ve got older or was, was the fact that you didn’t do very well at school anything to do with learning or was it just something else?
Giles Fuchs
So many question there.
Elliot Moss
So many questions.
Giles Fuchs
I’m going to go with…
Elliot Moss
I’ve been doing that at a time. I can’t help myself.
Giles Fuchs
I’m going to say that it wasn’t because I was stupid, l learnt in a particular now I know, visually and audibly, I didn’t learn well by people just telling me stuff so I didn’t, I didn’t learn and they weren’t telling me stuff I was interested in. When I left school and yes, I’ve got older, I love debating, I love learning and the great thing about now is you don’t have to have an argument anymore do you. The pub argument fold have gone because you say something, someone else says something else, you go well hang on, let’s just look it up, so I am forever researching stuff and looking stuff up and yes, I think that has changed through my life.
Elliot Moss
And we’re going to talk a lot about property in a bit, we’re going to talk about office space, we’re going to talk about drinks, we’re going to talk about hotels and hence the word ‘serial’ and not a bar indeed but an entrepreneur and that is Giles Fuchs, he’s my Business Shaper today and you’ll be hearing a lot more from him in just a moment. But first more music, Manu Dibango with Soul Makossa.
Another brilliant one, Manu Dibango with Soul Makossa. Giles Fuchs is my Business Shaper, he is a serial entrepreneur, he’s interested in properties, he’s interested in hotels, he’s interested in drinks, interested in life I guess is the point, Giles. So, I want to talk a little bit about the property world and what you learnt in those early days if we can just go back for a moment. People always say it’s really important in business to understand how to sell. Nowhere is it more, I think, exposed than in property, I’m sure there are other things but property is like if you can’t sell the house, that’s a problem and if you can, you’re good at it. When did you discover you were good at it?
Giles Fuchs
I think I decided I was going to be good at it.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Giles Fuchs
At school, I keep referring back to school, we’re going to have move on aren’t we, I’m going to have to move on in my life, but at school I realised that I wasn’t’ going to be, do well in my A-levels, I wasn’t that interested and so I decided in the Fifth Form, so what’s that fifteen, sixteen, that I was going to be an estate agent. My reasons were, I’m not going to get into university, I like the cars they drive and they all look really smart in their braces and pinstripe suits. You probably don’t remember the ‘80s.
Elliot Moss
I do remember very, very well.
Giles Fuchs
And it was free to enter so I decided I was going to be good at it and…
Elliot Moss
When you say that though, just a sort of serious point for a minute, you decided. You know, I could decide I was going to be a doctor and I just, I couldn’t do it, I wasn’t very good at it. You decided which is great and I think looking back you would say that but there’s some talent in there obviously for ‘the sell’.
Giles Fuchs
Yes, wouldn’t one choose something one thinks one’s going to be good at.
Elliot Moss
And why did you think you’d be good at it?
Giles Fuchs
I had a great education even though I did badly and it taught me how to get on with people of every strata and every type and estate agency or selling actually, because going back to what you said, selling is the key to life, I felt as though I had that very small talent as I could talk to anyone and of course listen.
Elliot Moss
And where did that come from do you think? Were your parents like that, were they very sociable people?
Giles Fuchs
I went to… yes, they were renowned for their fancy dress parties.
Elliot Moss
There you go, now we’re finding the reasons.
Giles Fuchs
I’ll show you the photos later, they are impressive.
Elliot Moss
But people used to dress up. The certain generation just love fancy dress. I’ve got a picture of my grandfather in a hotel in Bournemouth dressed up with someone else’s grandfather, they’re like what are they all doing. I mean I know people like fancy dress, I’m rubbish at that kind of stuff. So there was an atmosphere, a kind of relaxed atmosphere at home and fun.
Giles Fuchs
There was, was there a relaxed atmosphere?
Elliot Moss
Was it relaxed?
Giles Fuchs
Well it was, I’m going to say yes it was. My father was a very busy man, he was away for two weeks out of every four travelling the world, he was a successful businessman, my mother was a stay-at-home mum and she was very relaxed, she is still alive and she is an awesome human being that all my friends want to spend time with and she debates and she talks about interesting subjects, at 64 she did a degree in psychology…
Elliot Moss
Oh wow.
Giles Fuchs
…and became a counsellor, I mean she is…
Elliot Moss
This is Carol.
Giles Fuchs
Carol. And of course she founded the serviced office industry in this country in 1979.
Elliot Moss
Right.
Giles Fuchs
So she is an awesome woman. But yes, she was relaxed, she was a mother at home, she always claims the important thing about a child, we’ve gone on a very interesting tangent all of a sudden, she said the most important thing about a child is not how it’s brought up but it knowing comprehensively that it’s loved and supported and that gives it 8.23, a self-belief and from that they can move on and not do anything of course because you, you’ve pointed out quite rightly, probably couldn’t have been a doctor or indeed…
Elliot Moss
Me neither.
Giles Fuchs
…a lawyer.
Elliot Moss
Me neither.
Giles Fuchs
But yes, I felt confident about, I didn’t mind failure either and I was going to, if I just recount a bit, so the school I went to was very disciplined and actually, it was run, it was a naval school, wore naval uniform and it was run after 6 o’clock in the evening, how times have changed, it was run by the boys, by the prefects. You need to learn how to keep your head down. So I think in that respect, well you learned respect and how to get on with a group of lads, you know, because I was boarding, so in a very hothouse environment, so I think that also helped, not, not trying to force your way into any environment.
Elliot Moss
People skills.
Giles Fuchs
Indeed.
Elliot Moss
How far they’re important skills. People skills, and we’ll come back to something you said about failure which I’d like to pick up on as well. Much more coming up from my guest, Giles Fuchs, in a couple of minutes but right now we’re going to hear a clip from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions which can be found on all the major podcast platforms. MDRx CEO, Tom Grogan and COO, Sian Rodway talk about the metaverse, what it is, why companies would wish to explore it and the potential risks that we should all be aware of.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again with Giles if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is serial entrepreneur, Giles Fuchs, founder and co-founder of many companies, including Office Space in Town, the flexible workplace provider and no or low alcohol brand, Gunner Cocktails. The failure thing for a moment and you said, you know, “I didn’t worry about failure”. As you know, I prepare, I read around and listen to a whole bunch of stuff before I get to meet you in person, all my guests, and I thought here’s a person who doesn’t seem to be fearful of anything and I couldn’t put my finger on it and I’m like, “wouldn’t that be nice” because I think we all, and I’m sure you are fearful of certain things but generally, you’re like “well, it’s just work, it works or it doesn’t work, no big deal”. Where’s that from, that attitude, if I’m correct in my thesis?
Giles Fuchs
You are absolutely, and I have voiced that, what is there to be, let’s deal with that first, what is there actually to be worried about if it isn’t about your children’s course, one’s children rather, or life and death, their health, what are we worrying about? We’re actually worrying about how people perceive us perhaps, we’re worried about money perhaps, but as long as we are true to ourselves and we have enough money, it’s not about those things is it so, failure is irrelevant, it doesn’t matter that someone else looks as you and go, “you’re a failure”, it doesn’t matter that you’re not, you haven’t succeeded in your aim, you’re alive, you’re happy, hopefully got a good group of friends, you’re close with your family and so the fear is that actually if you think about it, it’s a thought isn’t it, and being a thought, it’s a choice, so if you decide you’re not going to be fearful and you must have been there when you have to jump off the high board at the swimming pool or you have to jump into a bowl when skiing or out of an aeroplane, I’ve not done that but you can go, you know, mostly it’s okay, apart from jumping out of an aeroplane and dying of course, forget that one, but mostly…
Elliot Moss
We’ll try not to do that, at least not till next week.
Giles Fuchs
Mostly these things are going to be okay and worrying about it isn’t going to help. Actually, you’ve just reminded me that when I was at, very young, aged 7 or 8, my grandmother took me aside once and said, “Don’t worry about anything, there’s nothing worrying is going to do about it,” so maybe that’s where the seed was sown.
Elliot Moss
And when you’re, when you’re setting up these businesses or you’re running the Office Space in Town business or the hotel, how do you help your people that work for you feel the same because people come at life very differently, Giles because of all sorts of reasons, nature and nurture, how do you the leader, beyond Giles the person feeling fine about things himself, how do you make sure they feel the same?
Giles Fuchs
Well, the two businesses, Burgh Island Hotel and Office Space in Town are very different. I founded ground up Office Space in Town with my sister, who is also an awesome human being and every single person, every single person building block we took, we put together and every single person that we employ, we talk to before we employ them and we explain to them our family culture because there’s so much in family values isn’t there, there’s no reason that we can see that your values and loyalties and behaviour should be any different in a business than it is at home with your friends and family. So, Office Space in Town, absolutely 100% represents Niki and my values and it would be good or bad depending on how we behave.
Elliot Moss
And give me a couple of values, just as what ifs.
Giles Fuchs
When we had a, a payday and we earned some money, we shared some of that payday as an ad hoc bonus to our staff. Every member of staff who comes to us and asks for any sort of training, we will give them that training. We look after them when they have issues, we will talk about those issues and help them through the issues, including providing counselling if necessary.
Elliot Moss
Okay. So there’s a generosity of spirits.
Giles Fuchs
Yes, well one, you know so, if it was just you talking at the moment, wouldn’t necessarily be a very interesting interview. In a team, in a company, it takes everyone to be involved and in fact, the fact that we founded and took the risk at the beginning does not take away by the fact that our receptionists are integral to our business and without them, you walk into an empty reception room and it’s the same at Burgh Island and so the people in the end are the most important resource that you can have.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, he’s talking a lot of sense, it’s Giles Fuchs. He’ll be back in a moment. Right now it’s O.V. Wright with The Bottom Line.
The soulful sound of O.V. Wright with The Bottom Line. Giles Fuchs is my Business Shaper, he’s the founder of all sorts of businesses, Office Space in Town, Burgh Island Hotel, Gunner Cocktails and the like. I read something about the equivalent of a family motto and you’ve been talking about values and your sister and you know putting those values in action and I love this, ‘Confer and Triumph’…
Giles Fuchs
That’s great.
Elliot Moss
…which is a just like if we were to make you Lord Fuchs and I was to anoint you, which of course in my 14.42 Lord Fuchs, great, if you know, in my royal, my royal role, obviously I have Lord Moss here now saying to Lord Fuchs, “Well done.” Confer and Triumph would be lovely, it would be above the, would be above the door and that really goes to the heart of how you view, I imagine, creativity and ideas. Just tell me a little bit about how that’s informed the way that you’ve acted in terms of the Burgh Island project or how is it that that’s happened with Gunner Cocktails because the other thing about you beyond the eclectic thing I see is that you like working with people that you like.
Giles Fuchs
True. True. Always, agreeance with that and I’m going to come back to that. Confer and Triumph, I love it. My father came up with it as our family motto. It is now, my father came from Czechoslovakia at the age eight so, was not English at all, came with his father and mother with a suitcase and he slept on a bath in Chelsea so, they started right at the bottom and he became more English than the English, as a lot of people from other countries do when they’re thankful for the host country, and he wanted an arms and so he had one and he had a motto and the motto is ‘Confer and Triumph’ and I think it comes from his middle European background where everything was on the table for discuss all the time and I remember, sorry we can talk about Confer and Triumph just for a moment, I remember when I was young and we lived in Bedfordshire, my grandfather, the chap who brought, saved him and his, my grandmother, brought them to England, they locked themselves in my father’s study for a whole weekend and they would discuss one subject backwards, forwards, sideways, around, back around again and each time they discussed it, it moved just a little bit, so what he taught us as children at the breakfast table was everyone have their input and although you might not agree with them, the first person, the second person, the third person, you have probably now changed your view slightly to what is a better opinion. So, yeah, Confer and Triumph. Be open and you will learn stuff.
Elliot Moss
And then the like and I think that’s brilliant and it is a kind of a lesson for all of us in our personal lives and our professional lives too because it just makes, it works, people come to conclusions that they have in common rather than feeling like no one’s listened or indeed that the answer is just wrong. And then the liking people and again this is just my sense of it, you, you want to be with, of course we all say we want to work with people we like but I think it’s a bit different with you, you seem to trust friends, which again is a for some people they don’t want to do that in work but I think you do.
Giles Fuchs
I don’t understand that, I don’t understand that.
Elliot Moss
But you do don’t you.
Giles Fuchs
Absolutely. All my businesses are run with friends so, Office Space in Town is my sister and one of the other founders was a girl called Sarah Singlehurst, I’ve worked with her for 35, known her for 35 years plus and we trust each other because over that period of time, over a long period of time people get put in difficult situations you see how they behave and you can then trust them. Cleaning company run by James Carver, a mate for many, many, few decades, I trust him and not that he will get it right all the time by the way but that trust is far more important in business than someone getting it right all the time. Penny Brown who is Managing Director of Burgh, she’s become a friend because I sort of inherited her but to be a friend with someone who’s running your business is important. You’ve got more to lose if you’re in a friendship than if you’re just in a business relationship. IFD, the whole board are friends so, and Gunner, which obviously is my, my, my new baby who love dearly along with all my other children, run by Dannie McDonald but Dannie came to me at a drinks party at my house and said, “What are doing with Gunner, Giles?” “Well I just haven’t the time, I don’t have the time.” And she said, “expletive, expletive, give it to me, I’ll deal with it for you.” So, her and her partner have been friends again for decades, she’s running with it and doing, I have to say, an amazing job.
Elliot Moss
“Give to me and I’ll deal with it for you.” I’d like a few more people round me like that. Final chat coming up with my guest today, it’s Giles Fuchs and we’ve got some Madaleine Peyroux because we know Giles is a big fan. That’s in just a moment.
Madeleine Peyroux, Getting Some Fun Out of Life. Certainly had a lot of fun today. I’m with Giles Fuchs, he’s my Business Shaper just for a few more minutes. We’ve traversed a lot of things, Giles in seemingly a random way but of course it was all coherent as we went through it. Not. There’s something I read about the hotel that you bought that said it was “less of a hotel and more of a crazy bit of art” and then I’ve read some other things as I was sort of thinking about your, and I mentioned at the beginning, it’s quite eclectic. You’ve got the business that, sort of serious business where people want to sit and do work and things but you’ve got your spin on it, you’ve got the office cleaning thing which is obviously a sensible, intelligent thing to do because there’s a demand for it, you’ve got the Gunner sitting here, I’m looking at this beautiful box, 1842, Gunner The Original, sitting here with lots of ginger which is my favourite thing, you do all these things and I’m thinking well you follow your passions, you’re fearless to a majorly big point, when you stop, what are you going to say I did? I don’t mean in terms of the specific things, I mean is there a sense of a purpose or a legacy that you want to leave or are you simply saying, “Do you know what, live in the moment Elliot and just crack on”? That’s…
Giles Fuchs
Yeah, the latter. I’m not looking to leave a legacy, I want if I can to live life to the full. I sound a bit crass doesn’t it, sorry.
Elliot Moss
No.
Giles Fuchs
No, no legacy and in fact I think happiness they say is about the journey, it’s not about the arriving. So, as long as I can carry on on my journey, I think then I will have a fulfilled, happy life. I can’t imagine ever stopping. The next thing if I said is Gunner Cocktail, which is delicious and I’m glad you like the brand and I really believe that that could be something but I, I need to breathe life into it and I know that when I’ve finally got the time to do that fulltime, I’m going to love that journey but if, we’ve already said that I’m, my attention span isn’t very long, so once it has life in and is breathing on its own and off life support…
Elliot Moss
You’ll just, you’ll just say thanks very much.
Giles Fuchs
…I might, I might. In my mind what I want to do with the profits from Gunner is travel the world watching rugby sevens, international rugby sevens, you know, Hong Kong, New Zealand, you know just watching that would be great but even that, I know that’s going to, that has a shelf life. So I’ll find something else to do and it might not be business of course, I mean I’ve done business now and I guess apropos nothing, being successful in business was it something I had to be to prove myself to myself, probably because of my failures maybe.
Elliot Moss
But it and that’s, you know, was it more proving yourself to yourself than proving it to your dad because by talking about your father the way you have and then the family and his history, I feel like there must have been a bit of…
Giles Fuchs
No, you’re right, it was proving myself to my father and I guess by doing that proving it myself.
Elliot Moss
And obviously your late father now, your mum you said is very healthily alive and all that, what would your late father now say if he was here?
Giles Fuchs
Well luckily, he saw Gunners being born, he saw the hotel, he saw Office, he saw all of that and for a man who was the cleverest man I have ever met and pretty well anyone who’s met him would say that, he invented a load of very important stuff and he was, he said, “I am very proud of you.” He said, not true, “I couldn’t have done what you’ve done” because he had different talents and whether he meant it or not, probably not, why would he, but that felt good, it felt good. So I’ve, I felt as though I’ve done what I set out to do in his eyes. He’d love me being on this by the way because he loves jazz and in fact I wanted to say, so when he moved house, when he retired he downsized and he moved all his music onto CD when CD was a thing, and he was going to throw out all his records and I said, “No, no, for, don’t” and so I now all own all his ‘60s jazz, Oscar Peterson, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong and some Sinatra and Beatles so I have the original ‘60s collection so, he would have been really, really happy that I was on Jazz Shapers.
Elliot Moss
It’s been great talking to you. Thank you for coming on, Giles, I’m sure he would be super proud for all sorts of reasons and you’re being very humble, the way you talk about your own success. Just before I let you disappear though into the fun world of Giles Fuchs, I’m quite jealous you know I’m thinking I want to wake up and be Giles just for a few weeks, that would be great, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Giles Fuchs
Well, it’s a very obvious one but Louis Armstrong, What a Wonderful World and it’s because music, music we like I think is probably because it anchors us back to something and it might be a moment or it might it might be a time but this anchors me back to my 20s when for some reason we listened to a lot of Louis Armstrong and it was a particular time when my first partner, a friend but then partner in my estate agency, decided to go off to Paris for a weekend with our then girlfriends and we liked to party and we ended up in an amazing restaurant called La Poupetre?sp 23.49 in Montmartre and we had a few glasses of wine and Steve Taylor stood up and sang this song to the whole restaurant.
Elliot Moss
Brilliant. Here it is just for you.
Louis Armstrong with What a Wonderful World, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Giles Fuchs. He talked about what his mother said, “Make sure the child feels love and supported” and how that has really enabled him to do what he has done in life and it’s a great lesson anyway. His family motto, ‘Confer and Triumph’, what a lovely way of looking at the world and coming up with ideas and getting people behind them. And finally, and slightly counterintuitively, “Work with your friends that you trust.” Most people say don’t work with your friends and he’s saying the opposite. I love that.
You can hear my conversation with Giles all over again whenever you would like as a podcast, just search Jazz Shapers or you can ask your smart speaker to play Jazz Shapers. Alternatively, if you’re up early, you can catch this programme again Monday morning just before the Jazz FM Breakfast at 5am.
We’re back next Saturday with my next Business Shapers, Rachel Watkyn OBE, founder of Tiny Box Company, creating sustainable, ethically sourced gift packaging. Up next after the news at 10.00, it’s Mr Nigel Williams, he’s got great music, interviews and live sessions too. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
You can hear our conversation with Giles whenever you’d like to as a podcast, just search Jazz Shapers or you can ask your smart speaker to play Jazz Shapers. We are back next Saturday with my next Business Shapers, Rachel Watkyn OBE, founder of Tiny Box Company, creating sustainable, ethically sourced gift packaging. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a great one and I’ll see you on Saturday.
On this Saturday’s Jazz Shapers, I’m joined by serial entrepreneur, Giles Fuchs, founder and chairman of Office Space in Town, the flexible workplace provider and the founder of no or low alcohol brand, Gunner Cocktails. I’m Elliot Moss and I’ll have more of that alongside the music of the shapers of jazz, soul and blues this weekend.
On this Saturday’s Jazz Shapers we heard from serial entrepreneur, Giles Fuchs, founder and chairman of Office Space in Town, the flexible workplace provider and the founder of no or low alcohol brand, Gunner Cocktails. That programme is now available for you to listen to again as a podcast and through your smart speaker, just search or ask for Jazz Shapers or you can hear it again nice and early Monday morning, 5.00am.
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is serial entrepreneur, Giles Fuchs, founder and chairman of Office Space in Town, the flexible workplace provider and the founder of no or low alcohol brand, Gunner Cocktails.