Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers, with me Elliot Moss bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today I am extremely pleased to say is Amelia Christie-Miller, Found and CEO of Bold Bean Co, on a mission to make people obsessed with beans. That’s quite a mission. Having grown up in a family besotted with food, Amelia had a game changing moment while in Madrid with a hangover and nothing in the house but a jar of Heirloom butter beans. Trying a spoonful straight from the jar, she was struck by how delicious they were compared to the tinned versions in the UK. Working in food sustainability, Amelia became inspired by chefs creativity with beans and well aware of issues around soil health, meat over consumption and the environmental benefits of growing beans. Beans she thought could change the world – I really hope she’s right. And she set her mind to changing their image. Founded in 2021, Bold Bean Co have since launched two recipe books, one hot off the press, and their range of jarred premium beans sold in many supermarkets including a recent partnership with fellow bean obsessive Ottolenghi. It’s great to have you here. The name of your company, Bold Bean Co, am I right and maybe I didn’t watch the right film on TikTok or wherever it was, you actually asked people what you should call this company?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah, so.
Elliot Moss
Oh you did, oh good.
Amelia Christie-Miller
So originally um, I was going to call it Humble Foods, Humble Beans which is obviously the kind of, the reputation of beans currently.
Elliot Moss
The humble bean.
Amelia Christie-Miller
And I actually wanted it to be ironic, I wanted it to be like you know, a bit of kind of Kendrick Lamar like we’re not humble, we’re actually really proud um, but it was a touch of nuance which I think people weren’t really getting and I realised I needed to lean in to actually people will, if we say we’re humble foods, they’re just going to be like oh you’re humble. We need to say what we are on the tin and I got, I kind of got 100 lists of 100 names and at the time I was living with my parents during lockdown on Instagram and I had about 400 people following me, complete strangers and I said, ‘okay voting, which, which one do you think you know, should be the name?’ and they kind of whittled it down to two and Bold Bean Co was decided.
Elliot Moss
And the other one was Legume something?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Legume, yeah.
Elliot Moss
Legume.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Like Legume, I mean it’s kind of quite like you know, could be French chic but I’m very glad we went for Bold Bean Co.
Elliot Moss
Well it’s also a bit clever isn’t it? You realised people do just as you said, want, want to know what they are actually buying. Um, it’s one thing to be obsessed with beans and, and you know, the story and you were drunk and then you weren’t drunk and then you had the beans and all that and we won’t rehearse that. It’s another thing to really be so obsessed that you create a company. Where’s that obsessive streak from Amelia?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Oh good question. I think it’s really hard to say, I think like drive and passion I was working in the food sustainability sector and sadly often when you’re working in the space it’s actually quite depressing and I am naturally a very hopeful and optimistic person and I don’t like just kind of looking at what’s going wrong with the world, I like thinking about positive solutions and I you know, was observing at the time that brands I believe have the power to change how people eat and change food culture and I really wanted to be on a positive mission to do that in the UK and for me beans are the world’s best food and the food that we all need to love and I am not alone now which is amazing, there’s a lot of people...
Elliot Moss
No you’re really not alone.
Amelia Christie-Miller
…who believe the same.
Elliot Moss
I, I was, I love lentils, I love black beans but I haven’t tried your queen beans and there’s a few other things that I really need to get into because I feel like an amateur and I’m in the, in the presence of a professional. But that, just to push on the point though, to go and do something, was that your way of saying, if I don’t do this I’m not going to make a dent? Was it that you couldn’t work for someone else to have the impact that you wanted to have?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah I mean I would say I was working for a food tech start-up before that I was very passionate about. It was all about kind of building transparency in the supply chain and I wasn’t in control of its outcome and it ended because it went bust and the Founders fell out and I think that, I’d given up so much of myself to that business and passion to that and I realised actually sometimes you’ve just got to rely on, on yourself to, to, of where you put your work and having the outcomes you want so I think there was an element of that but I’ve also always wanted to run my own business. I think as a woman I always wanted to be a parent and to be able to work and have a career alongside and sadly the world is still really challenging for women in that, in that space and I saw the only way you could really get yourself flexibility and things like that would be working for yourself and so it was something I always saw as a kind of, something I wanted in the background and then it kind of coupled with the obsession, it was just the right time where things came together.
Elliot Moss
You talked about being a woman, you talked about children and you talked about balance. When you first looked at setting this business up, did you try and fundraise immediately? And was that an obstacle or was it more about I’ve got, I can do some stuff without getting going and was it a problem being a woman who was a Founder?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah so I think I started working on the business when I was put on furlough and eventually made redundant which was an amazing gift really because I was paid to work on you know, my own business and I think that really helped because classically women are less risk taking, they are more risk averse and they are less likely to make that jump and that kind of probably helped, helped me through that stage um, and then I did a round of investment with Angels kind of a year later and I think what I observed was people believed in the idea and in me hopefully but I think the confidence I had on my own value of the business was very different to my peers who were male fundraisers who kind of would value their businesses so much higher, I was like, oh but it’s not really worth that much, I haven’t got enough you know but they were so much better at sort of striving for that and what I was really fortunate is that I actually had you know, relationships with these peers who helped me identify actually I should be valuing my business higher and almost even if it’s completely out of my comfort zone it’s imposter syndrome, but it’s not really worth that, helped me get there and I think that was, that was really important having that comparison and to help me be brave.
Elliot Moss
Yeah but did it feel, was there a, a physiological sense of uncomfort when you were pushing beyond the valuation in your own head that you thought. Is that where you, where it lived?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Definitely. I was sort of like crippling inside and being like, ‘oh my god what have I just done’.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Amelia Christie-Miller
And then it worked and I was like, oh wow, so actually.
Elliot Moss
How did you get over it because that’s, it, it’s you know, we all, we all experience that sense of I shouldn’t be doing that, I shouldn’t be thinking that, I shouldn’t be asking for that. How did you then cross the Rubicon?
Amelia Christie-Miller
I think that as soon as you know, I realised people were willing to invest at that valuation I then kind of stepped into those shoes and sort of was like, believed it myself and actually saw it as a kind of really empowering to be like actually I’ve now got to deliver this, people believe in me and that’s, that I found really validating.
Elliot Moss
And then getting going right at the beginning. What, what was the, what were the first couple of steps to get Amelia out of the, the starting, from the starting gun?
Amelia Christie-Miller
I always say talking about it and telling as many people as possible which a lot of people want to keep their business idea secret but by talking about it, people will open doors and people want to help you and also um, you, no one can be bothered to do your business idea so I didn’t, I don’t actually think you know, telling people, no-one, I told lots of people and no-one’s done a bean business alongside me but it keeps you accountable because next time you see them if they are like, how’s that been business going and you’re like, on god or actually I didn’t end up getting it off the ground, there’s your ego at play so I, I think it’s really important, I think the first step is telling people, asking people for help because there are so many people out there who do want to help.
Elliot Moss
And what about the energy sappers, were there people that went, why would you do that Amelia?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
How do you steer clear of those?
Amelia Christie-Miller
I think they come along and I think what you need to do is make sure that I, yes I believe from a passion, from a purpose perspective, for the planet and people but I also went to the British Library and I believed strongly in a business case. I saw the data of the category and I saw it was slightly growing, I saw the early backlash against ultra-processed foods and those sorts of like business case studies really helped me push through and be like actually I don’t agree with you, I think there’s something in this and that kind of helps you keep going.
Elliot Moss
Ignore the, ignore the nay sayers. Ignore the people that don’t know the facts by the sounds of it. Much more coming up from my Business Shaper, it’s Amelia Christie-Miller, coming up in a couple of minutes but right now we are going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Innovation Series which you can find on all the major podcast platforms. Lydia Kellett invites business founders to share their industry insights and practical advice for those of you thinking about getting into an industry and starting your very own thing. In this clip we hear from Tariq Rauf, Architect and Founder and CEO of Catalogue, a digital work hub aiming to give people a radically simpler way to coordinate work.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again with Amelia if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today as I have said a few times, is Amelia Christie-Miller - what a lovely name - Founder and CEO of another lovely name, Bold Bean Co, on a mission to make people obsessed with beans. So you set this company up in the middle of Covid by the sounds of it, 2021 and now you live in Barcelona, you have a team that works all the way round different parts of the world or Europe. Very modern, very modern.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yes.
Elliot Moss
Avant-garde Amelia. But you are, you know, you don’t have a space that you have to have everyone in. What’s that like in practical daily grind terms?
Amelia Christie-Miller
So the reason why we do it is because I believe people work the best and the most productively where they are the happiest and for some people that’s living by the sea, for some people that’s living close to the mountains but it also, it’s a really brilliant environment for people with care giving responsibilities, for parents which typically these responsibilities fall on women and I’ve got a lot of women in my team. I think how it works practically is we do things like you know, we’ll do a cook along where we all buy the same ingredients and we cook a bean recipe at you know, 11.30 and then we’re all on Zoom together and then we have it all for lunch and we’re connecting that way and then we also do points in the air where we all come together and spend time together but it’s a really quality time, it’s connecting time, it’s not kind of a quick cup of tea and in the office, it’s like pure people bonding, connecting time so I think that’s, that’s what it looks like but I, I believe it’s one of our super powers um, where some people will be, think we are crazy but that’s kind of the risk is often where the reward is as well.
Elliot Moss
Absolutely and for you in Barcelona where you are, are there other people that come to an office with you or are you absolutely at home working?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah there’s a few people in Barcelona, we get together at least like once a week and there’s also obviously we’ve got a lot of people in London, we’ve got people in Sheffield, we’ve got people in Bristol and Edinburgh so they you know, will come together you know, every month or quarterly, it’s just kind of depending on the department and you know, how, how connected we’ve been that quarter already.
Elliot Moss
And, and in terms of distribution. You’re, I mean I know you are in the UK, you’re in some big places, M&S, Waitrose, probably you can name 50 others. Are you in other countries as well or is it just the UK at present?
Amelia Christie-Miller
At the moment we’re just in the UK, yeah. We’ve launched in, we’re in most of the main major supermarkets; Tesco, Morrison’s and growing but we have plans you know, to test, test the water in some other countries as well see if we can make them obsessed with beans.
Elliot Moss
Is it, is it nice running your own business? Is it slightly strange looking in on yourself and going, I’m just Amelia and I was, I wasn’t doing this a few years ago, now here I am, suddenly I’ve got a little empire brewing. Are there moments when you pinch yourself?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Definitely, definitely. I think it’s, it’s more and more it’s becoming about the people in my team and watching them have such a passion for what they’re doing and believe in the mission and the purpose and seeing them flourish has been a part of building business that I didn’t realise would be so rewarding um, because it started off and it was just me and um, a jar of beans whereas now it’s um, a load of people who are all you know, very ambitious and driven to make an impact with this brand.
Elliot Moss
And obviously look, no business has, is plain sailing. Where do you go for help when you are a bit stuck or when the system you set up which is as you say, the risk is where the reward is and vice versa, the reward is where the risk is. When it’s not going right, where does Amelia go?
Amelia Christie-Miller
One thing that is amazing about the food industry is that we’re not competing with many brands. You’re you know, we can speak to the founders of Dash Water, of Pip & Nut and they are facing very similar challenges to us and have amazing experience which is so relevant to us, but we are not competing at all so the beautiful thing about the food industry is that everyone wants to help each other and does help each other so it’s a really amazing place to, and space to be because there’s always someone at the end of the phone who has been through it before that you can give a call to and I definitely do a lot of that.
Elliot Moss
Do you?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Yeah and funny enough you mentioned Dash and Pip & Nut and both founders have been on Jazz Shapers so you are in good company. You’re pregnant?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Yes, there’s a thing and you are going to be having a baby and I won’t say, you can say whether it’s a boy or a girl if you want to but I won’t reveal but you are going to be having one quite soon. Trepidatious I imagine obviously about you know, and excited about having the baby but here you are and you mentioned it, the, the, a woman in business and you’re running your own thing and you talked about balance. You are going into a new territory where you are now literally going to be living the thing that you had been thinking about. What, what worries you about maintaining that balance and your, you know, your investors looking at you and going, oh well it’s different now Amelia I mean really are you focussed and all this other, these other tropes that pop out. Is that going to happen or not?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah I think it’s impossible to go into this chapter as any woman and not be worried, they are now calling it matrescence which is like a formal word for the transition you go through as a mother and so I have no idea how I am going to feel and how my relationship with work, which work is my whole life now is going to be but I’m, I’m also really hopeful and I really want to, I want to prove to other women who are hesitant about starting businesses that you can run a business and have a family and not be the person who sort of two weeks after birth you know, back in the boardroom. I, I don’t want to be that, I want to set an example to my team that, that taking time off is actually something you can do without comprising your career and I believe I set up Bold Bean with an amazing team behind me who will carry it through and carry through the culture and, and keep helping it grow whilst I go through a major life transition.
Elliot Moss
Yeah and is there a timeframe you have in terms of not going back to the business as much as you can?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yes I want to take at least kind of three to four months off um, and then hopefully, hopefully longer if I can but obviously I’m going to be flexible because my first baby is Bold Bean Co and I want to make sure that’s good as well so if something were to go, go wrong then I can come back into the business and, and support where possible but I also really believe in my team. I think that I’m going to be delighted and realise how redundant I probably become coming out the other side of maternity leave.
Elliot Moss
Has anyone said anything that’s annoyed you already? That you know, people, I remember I’ve talked to a number of very success female entrepreneurs and I’ve had Debbie Waskow on the programme a few times talking about fundraising and I still, as a man, am embarrassed um, beyond and ashamed of some of the things that men say. In your, on your Cap Table you know, your investors, are they well behaved and civilised people or have some of them, maybe I shouldn’t 20.16 to wet your Cap Table but in general, have there been some silly comments or in fact have people been quite enlightened about it.
Amelia Christie-Miller
I, I actually intentionally wanted a lot of female investors which I do have so nearly half of our investors are women so they have actually been incredibly supportive and I think that building the right support around you, the people who understand the transition is really important so that you don’t feel like you’re having to pretend to be a different kind of person um, because at the end of the day people invest in, they invested in me as a founder and this is, this is part of me so they’ve got to invest in all of it.
Elliot Moss
Yes. Well as I say, it’s change but it’s not, you’re not, you’re not having a personality transplant.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
You’re becoming a mum which is one of the most brilliant things, becoming a parent and as a parent I can say this, it’s, it’s the most extraordinary thing that happens. Not much changes I mean Amelia, you won’t really notice this Christmas when you’ve got a small, a small baby in your arms. No, no, don’t worry, anyone says it’s going to be a change, is obviously exaggerating. We’ll have our final chat with my guest today, Amelia and we’ve also got some corto.alto because we are very cutting edge here on Jazz Shapers and that’s coming up for you too and all of that in just a few minutes, don’t go anywhere.
Amelia Christie-Miller is my Business Shaper just for a few minutes and she is the brains and the brawn now behind Bold Bean Co and they are going super strong. You’ve written two books, the first book I like the title by the way, it is obviously very clever, the first book was called, is called, ‘Bold Beans Recipes To Get Your Pulse Racing’ – see what we did there, very clever – and we’ve got a new book out, you’ve got a new book out, I didn’t have anything to do with it, two days ago, ‘Full Of Beans’. You like writing?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Love, love it yeah.
Elliot Moss
Do you?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah, I think um, recipes are such an important part of helping people see how delicious beans can be. We want to tempt people into beans, they know they should eat them for health and sustainability but actually let’s make it joyful and obviously our jarred beans which are so delicious you can eat them straight from the jar are part of that but recipes and exciting people for all the tempting things that they can eat is so key so I love that part of what we do and I’m really proud of, of the cook books because so much love goes into them.
Elliot Moss
You don’t have to be honest but if you are it would be great. You know, to me I’m, I’m not great at spending time cooking. I love a well cooked meal, I love someone who has spent the time, taken the time but for me it’s like, ah really. The recipes themselves I would be so fearful if I had a blank page and I had to fill them up. Where have they all, where have all these recipes come from? Your head or lots of other people?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah so we’ve been, so a year before I launched the beans I started sharing bean recipes so over the years I have, and my team has as well, we’ve understood what really makes people love and enjoy eating beans, making it easy. So we’ve learnt a lot along the way and then we also know our customers really well, we know the kind of you know, flavours they are excited by but also practicalities that they need like, they need a quick and easy dinner that is nourishing, that’s hearty, that’s delicious that can be done in 20 minutes. So we’re thinking about these different lenses but really you start with kind of flavours, you start with ingredients and because beans are such a wonderful base, they can go into any cuisine, they can work with any ingredient really, it means that that they are incredibly versatile. So you can kind of start with the other ingredients that go with it and then you kind of go from there thinking, oh what would be good if we got some feta, maybe it would be really nice for something sweet or acidic and you go from there.
Elliot Moss
And the, and the trusty baked bean, I believe has made an entrance into your life?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yes.
Elliot Moss
What’s your twist on the baked bean, if there is one?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Well I actually hated baked beans growing up.
Elliot Moss
I really like them.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Oh that’s great.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Amelia Christie-Miller
And actually you should like them because they are you know, they’re amazing.
Elliot Moss
Are they pinto beans, what are they the actual beans?
Amelia Christie-Miller
So we actually, we do a small white bean but ours are gourmet, they are kind of as if you are making baked beans from scratch at home. So they taste very different to the Heinz of the world and that’s intentional because people who love Heinz should continue eating Heinz. This is for people who maybe want something that is more like a home booked meal, less processed and really flavour first you know, we’ve got a smoky, chilli baked bean which is delivious with sort of pickled red onions on sourdough toast. It’s a different experience and maybe it’s that Sunday brunch morning experience or it could be…
Elliot Moss
Hungover experience…
Amelia Christie-Miller
…well no…
Elliot Moss
…Amelia to bring you back.
Amelia Christie-Miller
…the thing is with ours you definitely don’t need to be hungover, you just want that, that morning elevated, you’re going to feel great afterwards um, and bring people back to a British classic that is so good for you and the planet um, and, because everyone should be eating more beans.
Elliot Moss
They should be. Apparently, apparently you’re obsessed with them. Um, and very briefly just before I ask you your song choice. It’s clear you love writing and bringing this to life because that’s a way of persuading people to eat beans. It’s also clear you love the business of building a business. If I had a, had to make you choose just one, would it be writing or would it be the business? Which is a mean choice and obviously purely theoretical?
Amelia Christie-Miller
I probably believe that the business is going to have more of an impact in our mission long-term so I would, I could lean on other writers to help with that journey but I think that the business you know, the beans and the engine of a business can create amazing change in the world so I would say probably the business and I would lean on lots of other writers.
Elliot Moss
She says that but in her eyes she’s saying, but the joy Elliot comes from the writing.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Even though I’m very joyed about business, don’t make me stop writing.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Yeah exactly.
Elliot Moss
Is probably true. Keep writing, keep doing the business, keep people obsessed with beans. It’s been great to see you, good luck with your arrival later this year.
Amelia Christie-Miller
Thank you.
Elliot Moss
May it be a swift and healthy one. That’s all you need, swift, you’ll know why I say that after the event. We can talk then. Listen, just before I let you go, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Amelia Christie-Miller
Um, I have chosen Paolo Nutini, Scream. I used to work as a private chef and I remember I was by myself, alone in um, Majorca for two weeks cooking for this family and the album had just come out and I was kind of like go for hours long walks and it was when I realised I was just daydreaming about food the whole time in this cooking and I was like, I have to work in the food industry um, so it kind of reminds me of that but I think it’s just such an upbeat song, I love it.
Elliot Moss
Paolo Nutini there with Scream, the song choice of my Business Shaper today Amelia Christie-Miller. Her advice to everyone thinking about a business is to talk about it, don’t be secretive, there’s no need because no one else can be bothered to do your idea. And a lovely thought that where people are their happiest is probably where they should work. Absolutely great stuff. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that addition of Jazz Shapers, you’ll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search ‘Jazz Shapers’ in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.