Elliot Moss
That was the Jamie Cullum with Singing in the Rain, and a lovely version of it, it was too. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss. It’s where the Shapers of Business join the Shapers of Jazz, Soul and Blues. My guest today, I am very pleased to say, is Cecile Reinaud, Founder of Seraphine, the British maternity fashion brand. As a child in Paris, Cecile was taught to sew and make clothes for herself and her dolls by her grandmother who, with Cecile’s grandfather, used to supply fabrics to the top fashion houses. She was inspired to revolutionise maternity wear after her colleagues in advertising complained about the lack of fashionable clothes available to them during pregnancy. After designing several items from her kitchen table for pregnant friends, Cecile opened her first shop in Kensington in 2002 with £250,000 from investors. Her aim, to perfect the art of being fashionably pregnant and bring Parisian chic to women worldwide. The brand now sells to over a hundred countries, buoyed by its popularity with celebrities and no doubt a little by the Duchess of Cambridge wearing Seraphine for the first official family portrait with Prince George. Cecile is also recently appointed board member at the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, an organisation supporting female entrepreneurs in developing countries, and after selling Seraphine last year, we’ll find out Cecile’s plans for what’s next. We’ve also got super music in today’s Jazz Shapers, from amongst others, Aretha Franklin, Sade and Miriam Makeba. Here’s Stevie Wonder with As.
That was As from Stevie Wonder. Cecile Reinaud is my Business Shaper today, I am very pleased to say. She is the Founder of Seraphine and if you didn’t know, they are the British maternity fashion brand who have made quite a storm. Hello, how are you? It’s nice to see you.
Cecile Reinaud
Lovely to be on the show, thank you for inviting me.
Elliot Moss
It’s an absolute pleasure. Cecile, tell me, obviously I mentioned the point about where the fashion gene came from and I interviewed Nicole Farhi a few years ago and she had a similar story about family and fashion. It’s one thing having a passion for fashion, it’s another thing wanting to set up a business. Why did you move from the world of advertising into this space? What was, if you can remember, the real impetus for the change?
Cecile Reinaud
So really the driving factor for me to jump into entrepreneurship was kind of seeing the culture that was becoming very prevalent, particularly in London, of entrepreneurships. The internet was starting, it was the early days but there were a lot of people coming up with great business ideas and you know that really inspired me to think could I do something that I feel truly passionate about and at the same time make it a successful business? Actually, some years, a couple of years before, I had a sort of chance encounter with the Founder of Body Shop, Anita Roddick, and she had really truly inspired me and impressed me and I think somewhere this was at the back of my mind of thinking, mm, could I be something akin to her so it was definitely there and I was working in advertising, working for big corporates, working for the like of Shell, Barclays, Unilever and I really enjoyed that but at the same time I could see that I couldn’t think that I would have enough passion to carry me through let’s say the next twenty years of working with these big corporates and that I was probably better in a field where I could have more passion and more ability to drive change. So, I decided to jump and create my business.
Elliot Moss
You did jump, and was it, were you pretty sure from a very early stage that you’d made the right decision?
Cecile Reinaud
You know it was not always but I always felt like because I had this somewhat safety net that I had a successful advertising career, I thought if it’s a failure, I’ll go back to that, you know, so that gave me quite a bit of safety that I thought why not try for a couple of years and if it doesn’t work, you know, I have proven myself in the corporate world so I know I’ll be able to go back so, you know, there are always moments of doubt but I think the, you know, traits of character of entrepreneurs is often to be over-enthusiastic and optimistic and I’m certainly in that category of people so despite the challenges and sometimes at the back of my mind thinking was it the right decision, I always kept sort of going forward.
Elliot Moss
Luckily you did because Seraphine has done rather well and you have worked rather hard to achieve all that you have so far. Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, Cecile Reinaud. She’ll be back shortly, she’s the Founder of Seraphine. Right now though, it’s the wonderful sound of Aretha Franklin with Do Right Woman, Do Right Man.
That was Aretha Franklin with Do Right Woman, Do Right Man. Nice and emotional for my Business Shaper here, Cecile Reinaud. We’ve been talking about the beginnings of her journey as the Founder of Seraphine. In those early years, you said something just earlier, you said well of course there were the seeds of doubt. How did you ensure that you held the line? How did you keep on going so that the doubt, whilst we all doubt about things, even super successful, mostly super successful people actually it seems to me? What kept you going in those early years? When did you know you were onto a winner?
Cecile Reinaud
Well, you know, we had some very early success and we had in particular some big profile celebrities coming to shop in what was the first Seraphine store, so before we made a big internet business, we were a shop only store and you know that kind of really made me think that if quite famous people like the likes of Claudia Schiffer for example, were buying my product there was something you know to keep going and it must be quite a good product so it gave me that reassurance. I also, you know, had initial angel investors and I felt extremely driven to show them that the trust they had put in me by investing in the business that they were going to be happy and satisfied of the return so I think my personal pride was very much involved there and that always gave me a sense of always go forward and try harder.
Elliot Moss
After opening the shop, did you start to think about, because the internet was still, e-commerce was still relatively new, of course not completely new in the mid-2000s, but was your aspiration quite early on to hopefully give millions of women, or hundreds of thousands of women, the opportunity to buy your clothes rather than a few thousand?
Cecile Reinaud
You know it came a couple of years after, so probably in the third year of launching. What was interesting is when I wrote the business plan, the e-com bubble was just bursting. If you remember, companies like BooHoo.com made a big mess and it had to file for bankruptcy so to my investor, I told them I’m not going to do any of this internet, this is going to be a straightforward bricks and mortar chain of store and they liked that idea, they were like okay none of that, you know, internet crazy idea but actually things progressed very quickly of course and within the space of three years, it started to shape up that, you know this would be a great way of distribution and we were a small brand but nevertheless we quickly built that reputation for doing extremely good product, initially one of our hero products were our jeans and we had waiting lists of women waiting for this product and I realised that the medium of internet would enable me to distribute product far beyond just the catchment area of a store. So that’s when I changed the business plan effectively and I think that’s what entrepreneurs do is, you have to sail with the wind so when I saw that the wind of internet was coming thick and fast, I decided to take that opportunity.
Elliot Moss
And that as they say, was a very good idea, Cecile. Luckily you did follow the wind and the wind has been quite a big wind, it’s blown up quite a storm and a hurricane over the last ten or fifteen years. Stay with me for much more from my guest, Cecile Reinaud, she’ll be back in a couple of minutes. Right now though, we are going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions which can be found on all of the major podcast platforms. Mishcon de Reya’s Emma Woollcott is going to be talking about the privacy rights of children and the considerations that may arise where a parent seeks to include children in their social media footprint.
You can enjoy a smorgasbord of excellent former Business Shapers and hear this programme again with Cecile, on the Jazz Shapers podcast or if you have a smart speaker, you can ask it to play Jazz Shapers and there you will find many of our recent shows. But back to today and Cecile, it’s Cecile Reinaud, Founder of Seraphine, the British maternity fashion brand. You’ve mentioned, and I mentioned, the role of celebrities in your promotion as it were, the fact that the Claudia Schiffers and the Duchess of Cambridge and many other people, well-known people have endorsed your clothes because they wear them rather than being paid by you to endorse them if you will, this is a, you know, before influencers were influencers, before celebrities were sort of doing this, you were on it because you had a really strong following. Do these lovely women have a connection with you personally as well? Do they build one or do they, is it just lucky they wear your clothes or does something deeper happen with the brand?
Cecile Reinaud
Well it really depends from client to client. With some we build one-to-one relationships and with others they are just clients so, definitely you know we have this big group of celebrities and we love to say that we dress from obviously princesses, our famous customer is the Duchess of Cambridge but all the way to a rockstar like Gwen Stefani so, a big range of celebrities and it is what has cemented our brand and the fact that people realise the quality of the brand and makes the brand really aspirational so, indeed we have been working on like having this big pallet of brand ambassador who are these famous whether they are a Hollywood star or a singer or a news presenter, really all the way to top models.
Elliot Moss
Has your background, I read somewhere that you said, look, I’ve got my degree and all that but actually the most beneficial phase of my life has been actually running this business. I just wondered though your background in advertising and your business Degree, surely these things help you look at the role of celebrities and the role of influencers in quite a strategic way. Has it helped having that background?
Cecile Reinaud
Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, studying and work it also gives you confidence and that’s what is key in success, having the confidence to think you know I am going to contact this celebrity and offer her to wear my clothes, that takes some kind of level of confidence about your product, about your brand so these years of experience definitely helped me but I think communication and PR is something very instinctive and it’s not something necessarily that you can learn in books so I am a big advocator for learning on the job and definitely when you run your own business, you are thrown into the water and you have to swim and there’s no one to teach you how to do things so you become a very fast learner.
Elliot Moss
And what about those people that you’ve employed over the years and the creation of a team because none of this happens without really talented people. How have you helped them learn how to swim if they are not quite sure?
Cecile Reinaud
So, as you say, you know the success is always the one of a team and I have been very fortunate over the years to recruit and come across people who are hugely talented, who complement my own strength because as an entrepreneur you need to be aware of where are your weaknesses and get people to come and strengthen these areas so, I’ve really enjoyed creating a team and it felt a bit at times more like a family because we were getting on so well, all working towards the same goal. The way I try to, you know, empower them so that they could grow and themselves become very successful in their career was really about never paying attention I would say to hierarchy, always allowing people even who are relatively junior to come up with ideas and embrace the good ideas, and I think that really created a very positive culture where everybody in the company felt some ownership and some desire to make it always grow and improve so really that culture of openness, no hierarchy, flat organisation has been very key to the success of Seraphine.
Elliot Moss
Lots more coming up from my Business Shaper, Cecile Reinaud, the Founder of Seraphine. I like the way you say it more than the way I say it, Cecile, can you just say Seraphine, comme ca.
Cecile Reinaud
Seraphine.
Elliot Moss
Seraphine. That’s just brilliant. Us English have always been suckers for a great French accent. Time for some more music right now though before I get carried away. This is Sade with Cherish the Day.
That was Sade with Cherish the Day, and her voice is still lovely to hear, lots of reminders of what it was like when I first heard her when I was in my teens. Cecile, you were talking about your team and you no hierarchy and all that stuff. You mentioned in passing, you know you find people that obviously are good counterpoints to your weaknesses, if you had to identify your one or two biggest weaknesses, what would they be?
Cecile Reinaud
Mmm, this is a very tricky question.
Elliot Moss
It’s like an interview when they go what are your weaknesses and you go, how can I make that sound like a strength? Except that I actually do want to know your real weaknesses.
Cecile Reinaud
When I started the business, the first person senior that I recruited was an accountant because I knew that was my extreme weakness, I hated accounting classes when I was doing my Business Degree, even though I got an A* for them, I really had to force myself to take this class so I knew that this was really a weakness and I would say generally anything which is administrative which requires organisation skill of the sort of administrative type, I am rubbish at, you know I am a creative person, I love thinking outside of the box, I am a connector of people of ideas but you know a business does need the backbone of organisation and of systems and that was definitely not a strength of mine and likewise technology is not something that I am particularly, I feel particularly strong about so, as we were building a big internet platform able to take thousands of orders a day across so many countries, you know there’s a lot of sophistication on these systems so, again I really looked for the best people who could help me with tech because I felt like this is a slippery area for me, I am not going to be good enough.
Elliot Moss
And of course your investment in people that understand tech has stood you in great stead because, as much as you pivoted into e-commerce all those years ago, the last fifteen months or so could have been brutal for you if you weren’t being able to sell your wares online globally, and you have been.
Cecile Reinaud
Absolutely.
Elliot Moss
I mean, what, have you seen those products or rather the percentage of sales rocket online versus obviously the fact that you’ve got nothing going on in store? Have they sustained you?
Cecile Reinaud
Yeah, of course, I mean we were like 85% online before the pandemic and I think that has like translated now into 99% online, obviously unfortunately some of our stores are closed but not all of them since we have stores also in New York, in Paris, so in different cities and fortunately they have not been all as affected by lockdown but definitely we have seen a big, you know, intake of influx of new customers and you know shopping online has been the only way in the past couple of months.
Elliot Moss
Do you think though that the instore experience very briefly when things loosen up for everybody, not just for your business, do you think there will be people coming back and if they are going to come back…
Cecile Reinaud
Absolutely.
Elliot Moss
…and what will bring them back do you think apart from the fact they can?
Cecile Reinaud
I think you don’t change people’s habits in the course of a year, you know, so if you think that we have been used to go shopping in stores for decades so this, it’s a blip. So whilst we are realising some parts are convenient, I still feel like shopping nowadays, it’s a social activity, it’s something that you do with your girlfriends if you are a woman, with your children and you know, we missed that a lot, being in front of a screen can not replace that, also if you are buying certain categories of product like shoes, I don’t know but I find this extremely difficult to buy shoes online and you know as a result I have bought no shoes this year which makes me very sad because I love shoes. So, no, I believe there will be a return and actually people will enjoy it even more because before they took it for granted to be able to go to a store and now, you know because we have been deprived of this, once we finally can go back there will be a lot of joy associated so I do think that retailers should kind of embrace and make sure that shoppers have got this great, amazing experience again when they are finally able to walk through a store.
Elliot Moss
You love your shoes. I love my jeans and I can’t wait to go back into a jeans store, but there you go. Final chat coming up with my guest today, Cecile Reinaud and a super track from Miriam Makeba, that’s in just a moment, don’t go anywhere.
Miriam Makeba there with the foot tapping, hand waving Pata Pata. Cecile Reinaud is my Business Shaper but she’s only here for a few more minutes so I hope I take best advantage of that. The values of the business has been really interesting to me, Cecile because you’ve got this luxury product, you’ve got these incredibly high profile people and all the normal, non-high profile people using your, wearing your clothes, and yet what you’ve also got is a really serious set of values, you believe in sustainability, you’ve donated a lot of stock to I think it’s called Frip Ethique, the Oxfam social enterprise in Senegal, you’ve done a bunch of stuff and you seem to have done that very early on. What inspired you to create a business like that versus just selling clothes?
Cecile Reinaud
Well I think the concept of giving back is very important to me and I must say that I take that from my father who has been given a lot of his energy and time to charity so, it’s something he taught me since I’m a teenager and it seems an obvious one but you know you have to share success and enable other people to rise as well so, you know it can be from as simple as giving away excess clothes, we did some wonderful campaigns at Seraphine where we raised money for Tommy’s, the baby charity, many times we worked with the Diana Award which is the official charity of Princess Di and raised money for them so, it’s always been on my agenda and now that I have left Seraphine as I sold it to private equity, I decided that I should definitely apportion some of my time to help charities and I have decided to help the charity of Cherie Blair which is all about empowering and helping and supporting entrepreneur women in Africa and South America and India so, countries and regions of the world where obviously it is much harder for women to break through into entrepreneurship. We know even within the UK, there’s a barrier for women to become successful entrepreneurs, we are only very far and few but obviously in countries where there’s a much more macho culture, this is even more difficult so, I had the pleasure to meet Cherie Blair and you know her charity really resonated, I felt obviously this is a topic I know and I think I can help and it’s very much about helping women by giving them very regular mentoring sessions so it’s pairing and mentoring a mentee and it’s enabled through the simple use of mobile phone so again technology is enabling women and men from developed countries and privileged countries to help women who have less privilege so I love this idea and that’s why I decided to join the board and help them raise money and be a donor as well.
Elliot Moss
I mean, I think that point about, and that’s fantastic because that point about there are not enough female entrepreneurs either in this country or, as you said, in more overtly sexist countries where there are more structural impediments to women having equal rights in terms of even having the opportunity to do things, I think that’s absolutely fantastic. We’re going to run out of time and I’m conscious of that so just before, and thank you so much for finding the time here in the 2021, just a few months after you have sold your business and congratulations on that, it sounds like you are going to be filling your time pretty fast by the sound of it. It sounds like you are not going to be sitting around wondering what to do, you’ve already decided to do some things and that doesn’t surprise me at all. Just before I let you go, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Cecile Reinaud
So, I chose a song from Chet Baker called Autumn Leaves. It’s quite, a little bit melancholic but for me it’s a special time when I went to open stores in New York and this was the time I was opening the second store in New York, so five years ago, and the store had just opened, it’s on Maddison Avenue so after the opening, I went for a stroll in Central Park and there there was this lovely jazz band playing in the middle of the park, it was extremely romantic and I sat on the bench and I reflected on, you know the having come to New York, opening business, it’s quite a journey, so you know this song sort of put me in a reflective mood thinking about all the hard work and the achievements.
Elliot Moss
That was Chet Baker with Autumn in New York, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Cecile Reinaud. She talked about having confidence in her own abilities because if it hadn’t have worked out, she felt she had her own career to fall back on. She talked about the importance of no hierarchy, how good ideas can come from anywhere and everyone should have a sense of ownership, and finally she talked about giving back and she is already getting involved in giving back to support other female entrepreneurs, not just here but internationally.
You can hear my conversation with Cecile all over again, whenever you’d like to, as a podcast, just search Jazz Shapers or ask your smart speaker to play Jazz Shapers. Alternatively, if you are up nice and early on Monday morning, you can catch this programme again just before the Business Breakfast at 5.00am.
We’re back next Saturday with my next Business Shaper, Josh Wood, Founder of Josh Wood Colour, the expert-led, home hair colour system. That’s it from me and Jazz Shapers. Have a lovely weekend.
That was Chet Baker with Autumn in New York, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Cecile Reinaud. She talked about having confidence in her own abilities because if it hadn’t have worked out, she felt she had her own career to fall back on. She talked about the importance of no hierarchy, how good ideas can come from anywhere and everyone should have a sense of ownership, and finally she talked about giving back and she is already getting involved in giving back to support other female entrepreneurs, not just here but internationally.
You can hear our conversation with Cecile all over again whenever you would like to, as a podcast, just search Jazz Shapers or you can ask your smart speaker to play Jazz Shapers. We are back next Saturday with my next Business Shaper, Josh Wood, Founder of Josh Wood Colour, the expert-led, home hair colour system. The Business Breakfast is up next with your full business briefing to launch your week. Have a great one and I’ll see you on Saturday.
In this Saturday’s Jazz Shapers I am joined by the Founder of Seraphine, the British maternity fashion brand. Cecile Reinaud is my Business Shaper. I am Elliot Moss and I’ll have more of that alongside the music of the shapers of Jazz, Soul and Blues this weekend.
Saturday’s Jazz Shapers we heard from Cecile Reinaud, Founder of Seraphine, the British maternity fashion brand and it is now available for you to listen to again as podcast and through your smart speaker, just search or ask for Jazz Shapers, or you can hear it again nice and early on Monday morning at 5.00am just before the Business Breakfast.