Elliot Moss
Welcome to the Jazz Shapers Podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today I am very pleased to say is Adam Sebba, CEO and Co-Founder of luxury travel provider, The Luminaire. After spending seven years as a captain in the British Army serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and Northern Ireland, Adam moved into consultancy, then took leadership roles in the luxury travel and fashion industries. Having spotted a gap in the market for a more experiential intellectually stimulating travel provider, Adam brought in Co-Founder, Nicholas Priest and together they launched The Luminaire in 2022. Their aims: to make intellectual travel cool and to create journeys that further personal growth and enable a deeper, more profound connection with the world. The Luminaire’s personalised journeys are hosted by leading thinkers including photo journalist, Sir Don McCullin CBE as well as palaeontologists and art historians and in January this year, the company co-created the world’s first luxury dinosaur dig trip in Wyoming. Of course they did.
It is great to have you here. I’ve introduced you with much fanfare. In your own words – The Luminaire – where did it come from? Why does it exist, Adam?
Adam Sebba
I believe travel is all about understanding the world you know, what’s the point of travelling and going somewhere amazing if you don’t come back with a different perspective, a deeper understanding of what you are there to see and I looked around and saw that there was just no travel company that was really focussing on curiosity, substantive, interesting experiences, helping the new generation of travellers understand the world in a more profound way and I felt that that needed to be created. Now I have grown up going on incredible holidays with my parents where they dragged me round museums and art galleries and I hated it as everybody does but then you look back on it and you realise what incredible privilege you had, what an amazing insight you got into the world from that and I realised that I think really accelerated over Covid, people looked at their holidays and their leisure and more from it. During lockdowns people realised that travel was a luxury and you realised things were a luxury when you don’t get to do them. I think the other thing that really accelerated during Covid was the fact that people looked at themselves and were interested in transforming themselves, learning things, spending that time during lockdown, you know, making themselves better versions of themselves and I think that really translated across into people’s preferences for holidays because you go somewhere and you want to come away feeling like you’ve had an experience, feeling like you’ve learnt something, feeling like you’ve taken something meaningful away, whether it’s yourself as a couple or as a family.
Elliot Moss
Is that you Adam as well, because if I look at your life post-University you went into the Army, I mentioned Iraq Afghanistan, Norther Ireland, these are tough places, incredibly tough for those people there and obviously various Army’s that are then involved. After that you were then you know, you’ve looked into various different things, whether it’s in the realms of management consultancy, whether it’s in the word of private equity or investment and various different roles, are you on the perennial search for meaning and is that why The Luminaire resonates for you personally?
Adam Sebba
I am and I have always believed that life is a journey of lifelong learning you know, you’ve always got something new to learn and that’s definitely been a part of my career. I remember when I left the Army I did an MBA and I turned up on the first day and they asked the question, what were the six types of profit and you were supposed to be able to name net profit and gross profit and so on and profit before tax and I didn’t even know the difference between the words revenue and profit because I’d come from that Army background which was you know, a public organisation that didn’t have that profit objective. So everything I learnt on my MBA was new to me and I just lapped it up, I wanted to learn about business and that is something I took on into my time at Alex Partners. Every project I was on was a new opportunity to learn and I think the management consultancy are a bit like modern day apprenticeships where you go and you learn and you get exposure to a high level of problems you know, you sit in the boardroom, you listen to how a CEO talks and thinks about decisions and you know, you’re lucky to be in that position and you can learn from it and then hopefully pick up those lessons and apply them later in your own career.
Elliot Moss
What made you go into the Army, Adam and how did that affect you as a person, I don’t mean what did you learn because I know that you will say, ‘well Elliot there were three things that I learnt, one was around resilience, another one was around…’, I want to know what it actually felt like for you to be in the Army?
Adam Sebba
Well 1999 I was just coming to the end of my time at University, I’d done French and Law but I knew I didn’t want to be a lawyer and the backdrop was Kosovo and the Balkans and everything that had been going on there and I really saw the Army as a force for good in the world, I envisaged that I could spend a couple of years in the Army with an introduction to leadership and management and potentially go into politics or International relations or diplomacy work with NGO’s out in the Balkans and feel like I’d done some good in the world and actually my second day in the Army was 911. So everything changed and you know, I had a very, very different time. I ended up, as you say, going to Iraq but I took some incredible lessons out of it. When you are in those situations like the ones that I was in in Iraq in 2005 setting up new structures in the company, new regiments in the new Iraqi Army, it really felt like I was doing something with great purpose and it taught me about how to solve problems without precedent. What I call problems without precedent where no one has ever done it before, there’s no play book, you are having to really make it up as you go along and find the solutions and create frameworks for yourself and so when I left the Army and this is something I am really passionate about – veterans transitioning because I went through this experience myself – you have to understand and relate to business what it is you learnt in the Army and how you can apply that in a different context and for me I had understood that I’d been in difficult situations and been creative in finding solutions and really for me, the way to take that was turn around consulting, going in to businesses with problems and difficulties, working out how to fix them and what I learnt was that I’d picked up the difficult bits of that you know, working with a hostile management team that don’t want you to be there, having been brought in by a private equity company, you know, creating that… the goodwill and that immediate injection of trust into a relationship which were the sort of things I had done on operations in the Army, you know, the easy bits were, relatively easy bits were learning how to do the excel modelling and the sort of the leg work behind those restructurings and turnarounds but I was lucky to have some really supportive colleagues when I joined who were able to teach me those things.
Elliot Moss
Obviously I haven’t served in the Army but I know plenty of people that have. Compared to business life though, is there not this, maybe there isn’t and you’ll tell me, this adrenaline or this sense of purpose which is existential which is about life and death, which is about, and I know you are not necessarily in a War zone the whole time but you are and you may be involved two or three steps back from the front line, but when you came out of it, wasn’t there a sense of ‘none of this is as important as the thing I have just been doing’?
Adam Sebba
That’s a really good question and yes, it did take me quite a few years after the Army to make that mental transition and I think it is so part of one’s identity when you are there, you know, what is it that you do is always the second question that people always ask you but I think, you know I was 29 when I left and I had a very strong sense that I wanted as second chapter in business in my life. I’d read some books about business that had really got me interested in that and completed my MBA and I think that gave me a sense of purpose you know, one of the projects that I went on with, with a consulting firm was helping prevent a large insolvency you know, we saved thousands of jobs by turning this company around before it went insolvent and I got a huge, you know, feeling of doing something valuable from that equivalent to, to what I’d had in the Army.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for much more from my guest today, that’s Adam Sebba, he’ll be back in a couple of minutes. Right now we are going to hear a clip though from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions and they can be found on all the major podcast platforms. Mishcon de Reya’s Victoria Pigott talks about ESG, which is of course Environmental Social and Governance and what the resulting long-term benefit is for businesses putting purpose before profit.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast and indeed you can hear this very programme again if you pop Jazz Shapers into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is Adam Sebba, CEO and Co-Founder of luxury travel provider, The Luminaire. The other thing I wanted to think about with regard to business life, Adam and the relationship between that and being in the Army is camaraderie and that sense of you know, you’re working with your brothers, your sisters, you are working with people and there’s a really strong sense of combined purpose. As you’ve moved through now to create this business, how have you instilled that sense of joint purpose for everyone that works with you? What is it that you do to make that happen because that’s a question that a lot of founders grapple with as they try to create this united sense of what it’s all about, what the mission is?
Adam Sebba
Yeah that’s a really good question. I mean to be honest I found all throughout my business career that working with smart, driven people you actually do get that similar sense of camaraderie you know, I call it just having each other’s back and knowing that you have that level of trust within an organisation, it takes time to build and it’s I think for the leader to demonstrate that he’s willing or she’s willing to go the extra mile to deliver that trust to have somebody else’s back in the organisation, help them out with a piece of work, help them out with a deadline, step in and then that creates a culture where other people are willing to do that you know, and it might be a deadline on a Friday afternoon to get an itinerary out to a client that wants to go on an incredible trip or it could be a piece of reporting for the Board but if you’ve got that level of trust within the organisation it’s absolutely not unique to the military, I think it’s just built through trust and common purpose and working together as a team.
Elliot Moss
And give me a sense because when I do research for each of my guests I am always you know, the world is an extraordinary place, people do all these amazing things but you literally, your business is all about exactly that. Give me a sense of one of the trips that you’ve curated because I’ve looked at there was some Antarctica stuff, there was stuff in Somerset, I mentioned the dinosaurs in Wyoming. Of all the things that you sort of built, which one tickles your fancy the most? If you had unlimited time and money, Adam, where would you be going tomorrow with The Luminaire?
Adam Sebba
For me it’s, it’s not about unlimited time or money, it’s about the experience that you have when you are there and you know, actually one of the first trips that we ever built I really think captured the DNA of what we were trying to do. It’s about three things for me that make an incredible trip. It’s a place, the scenery, the environment, something rare, something inaccessible, a place you’ve always wanted to go to, an expert, some sort insight and then a subject and I think those three things combined together to create a trip with a hook and so one of the first trips we created was around Venice and it’s a place where people, a lot of people will have gone to, it’s not an unusual destination but we wanted to take that as a challenge and how could we create a trip to Venice, really popular destination in Europe, but through a new lens and give that destination, that location a new angle and so we worked with this incredible charismatic guide, Francesco Da Mosta whose family had lived in Venice for a thousand years and that in itself made me stop and think, what is it that makes somebody stay in one place for a thousand years? That’s extraordinary and the answer came down to the water you know, Venice owes its longevity to the fact that it’s a port, it’s ability to trade and bring in money and capital which funded the renaissance and the art and culture and drove that cycle but I think what’s really interesting is the paradox that water is actually the thing that is threatening Venice the most, the climate change. So Venice is a City now, is an ambassador for climate change, for rising sea levels and so we wanted to take guests to Venice and bring them back as ambassadors to Venice, bring them back as ambassadors to climate change through an immersive restoration of architecture, actually being involved and hands on with that, as a very, very unusual and unique travel experience and of course, you know, an opportunity to see the art and culture and history and everything else that you want to go and see in Venice but through the eyes of a native. So for me, I keep coming back to that as the core of our DNA, like a place, an expert and an insight that together combined to create an unusual experience.
Elliot Moss
You’re very measured to me and I meet lots of people, very, very measured and very thoughtful Adam about the way you think about life, we’ve mentioned your journey itself has been one of all sorts of searching for meaning in a way and always looking to do something of value and that has purpose in it. Your father, Jazz FM Finance Director in the 90’s I’ve been told, also more famously for me because if you haven’t seen this amazing YouTube video, Mark Sebba was the CEO of Net-a-Porter, fantastic business and there is a film on YouTube if you just google Mark Sebba, most popular CEO or something, it’s been seen a million, million times. How much of your own, of who you are is down to your dad and your mum and that and how much is it just Adam chose to go to the Army, Adam is like this? I am just interested in context?
Adam Sebba
Well both my parents have had very successful careers, my mother as a writer you know, my father in business. The Army was in some ways a rebellion because I think they had assumed that I would become a lawyer, that I was on the straight and narrow having done that at University but you know, I wanted to tread my own path in that way and I felt a really strong calling for that but when I came out at 29, you know, seeing what my father was doing at the time I think was a huge inspiration and he came to Net-a-Porter late in life, it was really the last 10 years of his career and you know, he sadly died too young really at the end of that but I guess you can learn from that that you know, life is a journey and you know, you may not find what it is that you are really looking for, you know, he found that light and enjoyment in his last job really in his 60’s. It was hugely inspirational to see him building something from nothing you know, he went into that company for a two day finance assignment and then stayed for 12 years and as you said, you know, left with that video. I love the fact that my mum brought him down to earth by reminding him that Fenton the dog had had more views than him but you know, it’s definitely you know, both my parents have always been really driven and my mum is in her 70’s now and she still writes every day and broadcasts and travels the country doing lectures and gets an enormous sense of self out of that you know, and a lot of people would have retired at that age but you know, she is really driven to keep doing something for just for purpose.
Elliot Moss
Do you think that puts you in an unusual position as a veteran because you, you have seen those two people, super successful, super driven by their purpose as well as being very good at what they do. How do you think about other veterans that come out and don’t know what to do? Is that something that you, that you engage with?
Adam Sebba
Yeah I mean I am hugely passionate about that because that’s definitely the experience I had. I don’t think that any veteran knows what it is that they want to do when they leave or if they do, it’s very, very unusual and when I joined my consulting firm they put me in project that they thought an ex-Army officer would like. I did oil and gas, aerospace and defence, chemicals and packaging in Germany you know, anything with a large workforce, maybe not a very nice place to go.
Elliot Moss
Logistics?
Adam Sebba
Logistics and industrials and you know, particularly aerospace and defence, they thought I would have something to add there but what I really discovered that I loved was the sort of the FMCG world, the luxury world, the consumer world because it was all about the marketing, it was understanding what a consumer wanted and wanting to serve that, needing to be fast moving and responsive to consumer needs and it just took me time to work out that that was where I was going to enjoy working in terms of the sector and I think being passionate about the product, being able to emote with the product is the most important thing I think for being happy and successful and making you want to get up in the morning and do more of what you are doing.
Elliot Moss
Final chat coming up with my guest today, Adam Sebba in just a moment. We’ve also got some new music from Lady Blackbird, that’s all coming up here on Jazz FM.
I am with Adam Sebba is my Business Shaper just a few more minutes. A lot of what we’ve talked about is about what you think about the world, about your beliefs and your values. Tell me about how your values are informing The Luminaire business. I know that sustainability is important obviously and we all know that jumping on a plane willy nilly is going to not be great for the environment and obviously over use through tourism of different locations is obviously not good for all sorts of reasons, it might be bio diversity, it might be just respect for local people. What is it that’s driving the way that The Luminaire behaves?
Adam Sebba
Well I genuinely believe, and I know the team share this view, is that travel is about understanding the world and people’s perspectives and that does help the world become a better place. The more that we understand about different cultures, and the world we live in, the better that we can interact as humans with each other. I believe that travel must be impact less so when we set up the business right from day one, we had The Luminaire Foundation which gives 1% of our sales to causes related to conservation, preservation and education – the three elements that are important to us as a business and you know, we’ve been really proud to work with the World Monuments Fund this year helping support some of their causes, there was the devastating fire in Easter Island, I know that some of our contributions have gone directly to help that and there is definitely an importance I think for travel companies to be carbon neutral and not have an impact on the environment, that’s something that we’ve built into the business from day one and I think that starting up a new business gives you that opportunity to create a framework from day one where you can incorporate the things that are needed to make a business sustainable.
Elliot Moss
Good luck with everything. I mean it’s a beautiful business, it looks beautiful to me just surveying the website and one day maybe even I’ll even work out how I can jump on one of those trips. Just before I let you disappear today Adam, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Adam Sebba
So I have chosen BB King, Better Not Look Down. It’s a song that I probably listen to 100 times, a couple of years ago I had crazy desire to run an ultra-marathon in the American dessert.
Elliot Moss
And of course you did it?
Adam Sebba
I did do it.
Elliot Moss
How long did it take?
Adam Sebba
So it was a six day marathon, six marathons but in the middle there was a double and…
Elliot Moss
I say this to somebody, I’ve done one marathon and I hated it, hated it. I don’t know how you can do six with a double, that’s ridiculous.
Adam Sebba
The scenery was amazing and it took my mind off it and the music took my mind off it as well
Elliot Moss
But what about all the blisters? Your skin?
Adam Sebba
I didn’t get any blisters.
Elliot Moss
Adam Sebba is super human.
Adam Sebba
But the… I didn’t want to listen to music while I was running because I really wanted to enjoy the scenery and the environment but I thought for the night time one, for the double, I wanted a play list that would keep me going and the words of the BB King song, ‘better not look down, just keep going’, just felt right to be on that play list so I listened to it all through my training and I can’t hear it now without thinking about that amazing scenery in the dessert.
Elliot Moss
That was BB King with Better Not Look Down, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Adam Sebba. He talked about a journey of lifelong learning, he loves to learn. He talked about it taking a long time for him to work out what he wanted to do; in other words, if that’s you don’t worry it’s completely normal. He talked about having each other’s back and what the Army had taught him about camaraderie and about the importance of team. Great stuff. That’s it from me and Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds of more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search Jazz Shapers in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to Mishcon.com/JazzShapers.