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Cassandra Hill, Partner
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining this Mishcon Academy session, part of a series of online events, videos, and podcasts looking at the biggest issues faced by society today. Just to introduce myself, I'm Cassie Hill, a partner in the Innovation Department at Mishcon’s, and I'll be hosting today's event. Before I introduce the absolute living legend Mary sitting next to me, there are just some housekeeping points to mention. If you are online, you've joined this session automatically on mute and without video. If you have a question, you can use the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen and we'll pick it up. If you have any technical issues during the session, then please feel free to let us know in the chat and one of the Mishcon team will help you. If you're in the room and have questions, then raise your hand. Now, to introduce my guest, Mary. She grew up in Peckham, South London, at a time when women's football was barely taken seriously. She was told that she couldn't do it. She did it anyway. She became the first Black woman ever to captain the England women's football team. She played in 2 World Cups and 65 international caps and won the FA Women's Cup 6 times with 3 different clubs. She did all this while raising children at a young age when there was no maternity protection, no safety net, just grit. After retiring as a player, she made history again and in 2020 became the first female manager to lead a men's senior team to a cup win. In 2017, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and today she's an MS Society ambassador, a coach, a mother of four, and what I like to think is living proof that resilience isn't a word, but it's a way of life. So please put your hands together and welcome Mary Philip.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Thank you. Thank you.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
I mean, there's so much to talk about. I think your life is just amazing and what you've achieved is brilliant. I remember as a kid when, you know, I was playing football in primary school and I was the only girl wanting to play with the boys and I couldn't fit into the shorts, they were too tiny for me, so I had to beg my mum to go and get me some shorts to play with the boys. But what was it like for you growing up?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
For me growing up, obviously when I was at home I was able to go out with my brothers and sister, play with all the kids out on the estate, and we'd run around and we played football, played any sport that was there, and obviously it was cricket and football at the time that I was really focused in, and I was used to athletics and stuff like that, climb trees, jump walls, everything you can imagine kids can be doing but girls shouldn't be doing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I was doing. And my dad would constantly get calls, because obviously when I was young growing up, very community-based area, everybody knew kind of everyone. So it's like, ‘Your young Mary, she's climbing the walls again, she's climbing the trees’. But my dad never stopped me from doing that, you know, as long as I was being careful and I was with my brothers and sister, I weren't wandering off by myself. If they were doing it, I was allowed to partake and obviously be sensible, well, as sensible as a child could be, doing that and making sure I get back home in one piece. So I was able to do that. In school, that was different. Only boys only would play football, and whenever girls wanted to play, they weren't allowed to. When I was young, I was, what, 6 years old, I wanted to play football, and I went and whinged. I'm going to call it whinging, because that's what you do. I went to the dinner lady and said, ‘They won't let me play football. I want to play football’. And lo and behold, she went up to them and she said, ‘Like, if you're not going to let girls play she’s taking the ball’. So she took the ball off them and stopped the boys from playing football and gave football to the girls. It was me and just a few others. But the next day, the boys obviously wanted to still play football, so they let, there was only 3 of us joining at the time, and from that day, I was able to play football in school and out of school.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
I'd forgotten actually how much power dinner ladies had back in the day.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Great power and so I was able to play football, and I joined the school team, and I played my first match against our local school, which was Camelot Primary School. I remember playing at Southwark Park, my first football match.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Were there any girls in the other team?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
No, there was no girls in the other team. I was the only girl in our team, but that didn't bother me because I didn't think it was girls and boys, or boys. It was just playing football against another team. It was great. And then just off chance, and I'm going to say it was off chance, I was just throwing a football with my friend down the road. We've got to be 11, 12, and we were seen by a youth worker, and she stopped her car and she's like, ‘Do you girls play football?’ And we're like, ‘Yeah’. So we go over and talk to her. Although I'd be saying to my kids, if someone stops their car you don't go near them.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, you'd be like, ‘Don't talk to them’.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
But it was just, it was kind of different.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And so we went and spoke to her and we said, like, you need to come and talk to our parents. So she come and spoke to our parents and they let us join, go to the Shoot Club, which is in Wandsworth, and we joined their team there. But obviously there wasn't no under-12s or under-13s like it is set up today.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It was a women's team, so at the young age…
Cassandra Hill, Partner
So you played with adults?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I played with adults.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And were you, did you feel like quite small in stature compared to them?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I was small to them, but for me it didn't bother me because I used to play, like, my brothers are older than me and their friends were older, so I always used to play football and with older kids anyway, so I was always the smallest one, but I'd always get stuck in, nothing ever fazed me with it. And so playing in the women's game, you know, you had to just hold your own and like ride the bad tackle, so to speak, and get on with the game, and I really enjoyed that. But I also done karate as well, and I wanted to be able to do both of them, but my parents, I've going into secondary school, was like, ‘you're going into secondary school and you can still do a sport babe, but you've got to choose football or karate’, and they both had their competitions on the same day, but football won my heart and we're sitting here today talking about it. Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
I mean, it was the right choice.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
For right now, yeah, it was definitely the right choice, although my karate coach reckons that I could have done well in there and got into the Olympics if I'd stayed in karate, but football was for me and, yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed the career I've had in that.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Wow. Did you prefer it because of the team kind of side of the sport, or is it just the kind of different skills?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I do like the different skills in it, but obviously the team aspects in it, you know, you're just not there on your own. Obviously you've got your own individual things to do, you've got to master it's about your area and what you're doing, but it's about being other people and being supportive of other people as well. You know, I just like that feel and aspects of being out doing a team, but also on your own, but it's a collective.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, I agree with you like, growing up, I did football and hockey, which were both team games, and netball actually, and they were team games, and I enjoyed them much more than, you know, doing the kind of athletics and things, which I was good at, but you don't get that same kind of you're all working towards a goal together and you're all invested.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. Yeah, you just want that one goal, like, and all of you are trying to get to it. It's a great feeling, especially when you get to it. It's amazing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah. And so in, you got picked up, you played for the Millwall Lionesses, and then in 2000 you turned professional.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
So I think, what, one of 16.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
One of 16 lucky ladies in this country, or, and in Europe, that got selected, well, got chosen to be pro and becoming the first pros at Fulham.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And presumably that, you know, there's not brilliant support for women in football now, but I mean, was that quite hard at the time? Because, you know, I'm sure there wasn't much pay and, you know, you're raising a family.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
The pay wasn't great, but it'd be no difference to if I was working in any other local areas, like any stores around near me and by the sheer fact that my football was going to be my job, so I weren't, and I had my kids as well, it just made so much sense. I mean, I'll still do what I would be doing. I'd go to work, take the kids to school, come back, but I wouldn't have to concentrate about going football in the evening. Like, I'd wake up, take the kids to school, then I'd go to work, which was football. Then I'd be able to come home, spend time with the kids, make their dinner, sit around in the evenings for a bit longer than what I'd usually be able to do, because before it used to be wake up, take kids to school, go to work, come home, pick the kids up, quick lunch, drop them off, get to football, come back, and that was just rolling commentary all the time. But I've been able to do that. That's your job. It didn't bother me though. They could have just said, we're just going to pay you minimal, and I'd still have gone for it because I'm getting paid to play football.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, yeah. I mean I’m quite jealous. And, you know, I've already mentioned it, but in 2003, you became the first Black woman to captain the Women's England team. Did you feel the weight of that at the moment that it happened?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I didn't feel the weight at all. I was obviously proud to be given the captain's armband and going out and leading the team out there, you know, that's a great experience. And just knowing that your manager has picked you out of the group that is there to go and lead is amazing. But it wasn't until 2017 that she found the importance of that, she gave a significant, the significance of it, of me being the first. Black female, I haven't done that. And it's only through like a Black History Month that Sky was doing that, that come around, and I was like, that's amazing, you know, actually that's mine, like that goes down in history, like my grandkids see that long after I'm gone.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
That stays in history books that Mary Philip was the first Black female captain for the England team, so that's pretty…
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, you've done a lot of firsts.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It's pretty grand, it is grand, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And how, you know, leading a team, how did that feel, kind of stepping out onto the pitch, being the captain?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It's great going out and leading the team as captain, but I know everybody knows their jobs and I don't go at them thinking, ‘I'm the captain, I'm the be-all, done-all, you know, you've got to follow me, do as I say, not as I do kind of thing’. Everyone has that armband, but only I can wear it. That's how I used to phrase it out there. So we were to go out there, like take ownership of what we had to do, collectively and go out and do the best we could. And everyone knew that anyway so it was just fantastic that I just have to keep driving that same message across, but have the armband that, like, I used to like, finalise that as well. So it was, it's a good moment. Looking back on it, you don't realise the importance of it and how proud it can be, but it's a very proud moment indeed.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Mm. Yeah, it's an amazing achievement. I mean, you know, you started your professional career at a time where there's virtually kind of no infrastructure for women in football and when you look at the Lionesses today, you know, their Euros win, the sell-out crowds, like Arsenal get 40,000 attendance…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
That’s amazing. Absolutely amazing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
…for a women's game on a Saturday, which I just thinks fantastic. You know, the professional rugby clubs only have like 10,000 attendance so it's really impressive. I mean, what goes through your mind when you look at it today compared to when you started?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I'm just glad it's growing and evolving, you know, everything takes time to build up and like, if I was part of that first that put the foundation in there for people to come on and build, which has happened, you know, it's great to be a part of that. I'm not the big part that you're seeing today, but I was that part that's made all that possible. Now, to me, that's just as significant as the bitch that you're seeing now, because without us being there, like my era of going through all of that, they wouldn't have what they've got today. So we played an important part, and it is being recognised today that the importance of those that come before actually laid this platform down for you and I know the players obviously recognise that as well. So, you know, it's great seeing it growing and developing and I just want to keep seeing it grow and evolve the way it's going.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
What do you think needs to happen next for it to continue to grow and evolve?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It's technically just got to stay on the same level and just keep growing as it is, not trying to run too fast, you know, just keep that steady build going, you know, get that crowd in, getting people to that real buy-in. So you're always going to have that crowd coming in and people wanting to be a part of the women's growth now and watching women play football and slowly building that. And it just becomes its own, it just becomes its own rights, doesn't it? Like it's slowly doing and as long as they keep that promotion there and keep it positive, you know, it's only ever going to grow bigger. You know, women's football only got stopped because it was growing, obviously they wanted the men to get back in and start playing, which is why the cap was put on females playing. But, you know, that cap's off now, so we're able to grow and we can evolve back to them levels that was pre-war.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, and I think, you know, now you see in schools and things that it's not like, ‘Oh, girls can't play football’.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, it's nothing like that now.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Which is which is, which is brilliant. And you know, you're now managing Peckham Town.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Peckham Town, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And you, I think, are the only female head coach across 91 clubs or something its...
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Within the Football League in England that stands. But yeah, I'm at Peckham Town, but that's my local club and I've been there, diehard team. It's like I've grown in Peckham. I was there and I helped build their youth side so, and I had my coaching badges. So I've been there doing our under-8s, under-9s, under-10s. The girls' teams, and obviously when I got my A licence and they had the senior teams and the management's moving, although I was coaching the reserves and the first team, and they just said, 'Mary, would you like to come and manage the first team?' I was like, 'Yeah, of course I would’, Yeah, it's like, that's the stepping stone. I can't go above that. I had the under-18s team which I was managing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
So you didn’t have to… Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And I was like, 'I'm still going to be doing these on a Sunday'. It was their final year because all the boys I was doing, they were leaving to go to university, that's, that's end of that season. So I was like, once they've done that, I will be able to put full focus into the men's team. Still coach, um, doing their training, but at the end of that season, I joined the men's team and just solely sat with them, not the reserves or anything else, and I do their girls' football as well there so yeah, it was a nice step up.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
So you didn't have to push at the door, it was kind of open for you?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It was kind of there because I've been at the club and I've been grown in the club, you know, it's, it’s grassroots club, you know, it's a very community-based club, like, people come, you're just yourself and you go and be trying to teach you something. They were just trying to give back to the community which we live in, and it was just there so when the opportunity opened up, obviously other people wanted that role, but they said, 'No, Mary's in here, we've seen what she's been doing over the years, she does have her A licence, let's go for it'.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And have you felt any pushback from other people outside the club as to kind of, 'What are you doing?' and the men’s kind of…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Outside the club? Yeah, definitely the first season was a given season. Slowly throughout the time it's, it's changed, but I was never going to forget, there was one game, I'm not going to name the team obviously, but there's one game we've gone to and they've gone, ‘Yeah, girlfriends and wives have got to go to the other side, you've got to pay to go in’. I'm like, ‘I'm the manager’ and they're like, ‘No, no, seriously, you can't, you've got to go to the side, you've got to pay to go in’. And then the chairman's come up and went, ‘that's my manager, that's my video woman that's filming’, we're both women, ‘let them go through’. So they've let us go through and then I can see him around the sides and I can just hear him whispering when I'm sitting there, they're like, ‘She knows what she's doing. She's got an idea right there’ and like the icing on the cake is that we went out and beat them and it was just like sweet to go home. Then after the game they've come and said, ‘Oh, well done’. I was like, ‘Yeah, thank you’. But it's just that little bit beforehand and just hearing the bits that they're going through that she knows what she's doing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You know.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And that win is just sweet because you don't have to say anything to them…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
No just.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
…just go.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
…the proof is in the pudding.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, the result was there. But it's just crazy that it's a female, I'm a female doing football, I'm not trying to teach them anything other than football.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You know, when you go into the classrooms, if your child is doing maths, English, even PE, you're not fazed if it's a man or a woman doing it.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You know, and in women's sport, you're not fazed if their coaches are male or female, but somehow in the men's game, you know, if you're female, it's like, oh, I don't know what's going to happen here, you know, they might try and teach them to knit out there or something, but, you know, it's just one of those things that, you know, it's just football, we want to teach them to play football, and I've got an idea what football's about. So it's kind of good.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, because the skills, it doesn't matter what, you know, we've both got feet and legs, can run around.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. As long as you can break it down and get them to do the things they're required to know and help them develop, you know, your job's halfway there.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, I think it's amazing. I mean, one thing I suppose that maybe hasn't changed enough yet is support for players who are also mothers. I think FIFA only recently mandated a minimum of 14 weeks maternity leave, which for Americans would sound amazing, but for English is not so great. But I mean, I want to go back to kind of, I think, mid-'90s, and you had your, you'd just been, I think, called up to the World Cup…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
World Cup.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
…and you were pregnant.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
How did you feel?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It was one of those things, what you going to do? It's like, I'm going to have my child, you know, you've just got pulled into the England side, you're never going to play football again, you know, it's either your football or your child. And I'm like, why can't I have both? You know, yes, I was a young mum, but I couldn't see why I couldn't have both and people was constantly telling me, you've got to be a mum or you're going to play football. And because you're going to be a mum, you've got to give football a knock on the head. But I was at Millwall and the coach was amazing there, very supportive. So I had my child at the tail end of '95 and by the end, before the season ended in April, I was back playing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Wow.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And it was absolutely, it was great. And then the following season, we'd gone on and won the FA Cup and a League Cup and it was crazy that the sheer fact that the year before I was told this is going to be the end for me.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
But I'm like there and it's proof that I can still play football. I can be a mum, you know, my child could be a part of that, you know, I was able to take him to all my games. I'm never going to forget, I had an away game up at Everton and my manager held, held my son for the whole game. And it's weird, because I'm thinking, oh, this is going to be it. But he did, for 90 minutes, I'm going to say 90 minutes, he cried. Like for the first 45 minutes, he cried. And I could hear him crying. I'm thinking, I'm going to come off, but he didn't. He held him. At half time I took him, he settled down for 15 minutes, and then he took him again and for the most, I'd probably say around 20 minutes of the second half, he cried. And he could have taken me off that pitch and said, ‘no, come and hold your baby’ but he didn't. He had believed in me as a player, wanted me to go out there and be a big part of that team. And that obviously gave me that confidence that, you know, if people believe in you and you've got a skill base, why not help them along?
And he'd done that. He set that platform down for me, you know, that foundation that I can be a mum and play football as long as I've got a support network around me and I had that, which enabled me to grow and develop. You know, obviously I had the second child just before breaking back into the England squad and I was told I was never going to get into the England squad again, you know, you've got two kids now, that's it for you, give up football. And I was like, no, I've done it before, I'm going to come back in again.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Got myself back into it, got into the England squad, and that same year become captain and made history. Now, if I'd listened to all those people, I wouldn't have that and I wouldn't know what I could do but that little voice inside me saying, ‘No, you can do it. You just got to really have a driven, live and drive and go for it and believe in what you can do because you've got a support network that believe in you as well’.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And do you think that's where your drive comes from, your support network?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It comes from that support network, but also it comes from other people constantly telling me, and I've had that since I was little, 'Little girl, you shouldn't be doing this and you shouldn't be doing that,' and I'm like, 'But I can, I enjoy doing it and I like it,' and there was never a given reason why I shouldn't be doing that. I thought, okay, you know, if you run across the motorway, you're going to get knocked down, you're not getting back up. Fair enough, not going to try that. Okay, but the other little things, I can play football, that's not going to be a danger to me, you know, I can like run around and do stuff, that's not a danger to me, and I was never given a sturdy reason of why I couldn't do it and I think that gave me that drive that I can, you know, as long as people just encourage me to do it and I had the right people encouraging me. My mum and dad never put the caps on me saying, you know, ‘you've got to stop, you can't do it anymore’, you know, they were there and they were supportive with me as well, so it helped a long way.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, you've got 4 children now.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I do have 4.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And one of your, I think, daughters plays football.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, my youngest one plays.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
What do you want your children to take from kind of looking at your life and what…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You know, if they've got a dream, they've got a desire to do something, to do it. Like people say, ‘oh, your kids must play football’. I'm like, well, no, they don't, I've never forced them to play football, you know, if they picked up a ball and wanted to kick it around, I'm happy with that, don't get me wrong, but I'm not going to force them. Like my oldest son, he enjoyed basketball and running, you know, same as my younger one, but he liked football, but he weren't dedicated to it in the way that I would have liked him to be. My young… my oldest daughter, she likes sport, but she doesn't want to be involved in the competitive side of it. She enjoys just the being around it and being with her friends and just for her own wellbeing she enjoys it so I don't force it on her, do you know, you're really good at this, you really need to push, you know, you could make it to the top here, you know, it's something you've really got to enjoy and so that's all I encourage them to do but the sheer fact is it's their life and they've got to live it the best way they want, not how I'm thinking they should live it. They can't, I can't live my life through them.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And I can't expect them to have the same life I've had, right, free or wrong, you know, that's just my view on it, every parent's different but I want them to have their life and not grow up and say, ‘Ah, it's because of you I do this’. I want them to do it because they wanted to do it.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And I can get more enjoyment from it.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
I agree. I mean, I'm not sure I would push my son into being a lawyer, but. So I want to move on now to talk about your MS and your diagnosis. So just for, I think, people who don't realise, there's about 150,000 people in the UK living with MS and about 7,000 people are diagnosed with MS in the UK every year. And what I found really interesting just looking at some of the stats was that it appears to affect more women than men, which, and that most people are diagnosed in their 20s or 30s and I thought that was quite young, actually, for this type of illness. And I, I think I've seen kind of some of the interviews you've given before where you said your, um, your symptoms started when you were a player, but you didn't realise what was going on.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. I get like, um, pins and needles in my feet. I remember I got orthotics fitted for my boots because they thought it might be that. I used to get acupuncture a lot in my legs, you know. I'd get like nervy feelings, tingles in my arms. I'd get numbness, you know. I like remember taking my kids to school one day, got home, and it's like, I had, um, vertigo, every time I sat up, I thought, ‘Oh my days’. Had to lie down. So they're at school, which was great. I went home and I laid down for the whole day and tried to go and pick them up.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Oh wow.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And that lasted for around 3 weeks and I'm thinking, ‘Need to get to the doctor's’.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Wow.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I got there in the end, but it was the tail end of it so it was just, ‘Ah, you've just done a bit of a cold’. And that happened like every 12 to 15 months, I was getting some illness, but I never knew what it was. I'd be like, and I thought, ‘I've got to be overworked’, like I'm training hard, looking after kids, like family life, just life in general, it kind of weighs you down. You know, when you're a bit, getting moody, it's like, there's a lot going on for me right now, I'm allowed to be moody every now and then.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
But they're all like side effects of it. And then it weren't until 2017, I was at work and like, I was cycling into work and my vision at the side, I just couldn't see at the side.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
That’s scary.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And obviously when you're biking, and I'm thinking, ‘I need to get to the doctors, can't mess about’. So I went into the doctors and I just said, ‘Look, I can't, I've got no visual here, I can't actually see the peripherals out there’. So she looked at me, she went, done the eye movement, and she went, ‘Just wait there, let me just call my colleague in’. And everyone, when someone calls, a doctor calls a colleague in, you're thinking there's something a bit wrong here, you know, they don't often get a second opinion.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So they look and go, ‘Um, just see how it goes, if you go to the hospital, get checked out and then we'll see how it goes from there’. So I went up to the hospital with my sister, they done tests and they was like, ‘You seem okay, just see how it goes, so we'll let you go’. And I was at home and then I was just talking to my sister, I rang her and went, the side of my face is going really funny, like it's going really numb. She went, ‘what side, left, right?’ I said, ‘it's the right side’, obviously…
Cassandra Hill, Partner
So she's like, not stroke.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
She's like, no, she's like right side, yeah, she's like, not a stroke but we're going straight to hospital.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So I went back up to the hospital and then they just kept me in, you know, because it was like a little catalogue of things kept failing in there. So kept me in and run tests. I was probably in there for around 1.5, 2 weeks.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Wow.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And by the end of that, it was just like, yeah, you have MS. Just before they'd done the spinal, um, drip on me, checking the spinal fluid. They done whatever my bloods and they'd obviously gone back on my medical history and that time I'd had vertigo at the doctors, I had the same eye condition then but it wasn't ever flagged up until they'd gone through it fully and there were clear evidence and with the MRIs that it was MS that I had.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
How did you feel when they said that to you?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It blew my world, I'm not even going to lie. Yeah, I was just like taken back with how on earth has this, I've never picked up on it, you know and it's not until, and like, because it's like, until it's actually given the name, it was given the name, just froze you like, and then obviously I didn't understand what it was either. You've got, when someone told you something, you think, not heard of it, or you've heard of it, you don't know about it, so you start reading everything thinking, oh my days. And you're thinking, well, I've had that and I've had this and when you look back at it and looking back at medical records, it's like, all of that could have been picked up in my early 20s if I'd gone to the doctors and got seen out and got checked out. But ignorance in a way helped me because if I'd gone in my early 20s, would I have had the football career I had? You know, probably not because you probably would have got stopped playing. But that ignorance of not going and just pushing myself through it, getting to levels I had, it's just that final thing because I couldn't see, that's the only thing that made me go to the doctors, that I got that diagnosis. And it took me, I'm going to say, a year, year and a half to fully get my head around it. And done and come to terms that this is an illness that I'm going to have for life.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You know, I'm going to have spells of where I feel really crap and I can't have full movement, but it will come and go, you know, it's, it's part of it. Yes, it can get worse. I'm not blind to that. I know that in 10 years' time I can be running around, or, you know, I could be more disabled. I can't control that, but I can control how I am now, and that's a key thing for me and like, the biggest thing, reality to me, was that I'd gone through my playing career with this illness, not knowing it and not having a name. Now it's been given a name, I can't let it stop me doing what I'm still doing, and yeah, that's why I push forward for it now.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And I think, you know, you'd said, I've read that you've said before that you lived with MS for quite a few years before you were kind of ready to talk about it openly.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
What, um, why was speaking out so difficult? What kind of made you change?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I think you've got to come to terms with yourself of, you know, the effects it can have in your life and what it's had in your life and like just come to terms that you've missed so many key marks in there that it could have been diagnosed and the acceptance that this is a part of you and that's a big thing, acceptance to yourself that you're never going to get rid of this, you know, and it can get worse and it may just stay the same but you're never going to have control of that and just letting go of that, that's control I do not have, and understanding that I've got to live my life the best way I can and not with the sheer fact that this can happen at any time, because then you're very wary about, well, I'm not going to open the door today because I could get run over by bus kind of thing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So I've put that in the back and thought, no, I've just got to put best foot forward, keep going, and see where it goes. You know, I'm going to have, like I said, I'm going to have bad days and good days, but touch wood, I've had many good days and I'm taking medication for it, like, to slow it down, and it's working for me. I've not had to try too many. I've had the one medication which has worked so far, and we're coming up 10 years now, it's been working good.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
That’s amazing.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, so.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Because often with, um, these types of health conditions, you have to try quite a few different medications, or, you know, it's trial and error for a while until you can kind of get to somewhere that works for you.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. To the right one. I just went through all of them with a fine-tooth comb. I’ve never read so much in my life, it's amazing, um, but a fine-tooth comb. The main things me, I was looking at the side effects it has, you know, those what make me feel drowsy and stuff, they're the ones that I binned straight away. I didn't want to feel that.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Don't want to have my life, like, having to take this medication and feeling tired throughout the day, so I just went for the one with the side effects I could probably deal with, like headaches, you know, little things like that, and I can deal with that, and obviously I have them and I can deal with them, and so far, like I said, it's coming up 10 years I've been taking it, and the side effects I still have them, but I'm able to have a normal life with it. So I'm able to just keep going.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And apart from medication, are there other things you do that help you with MS?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, obviously I try and keep myself ticking over as best I can. I don't go on mile runs now. I hated running, so I don't do that, but I do try and cycle a number of days. I do try and get out running at least 3 times a week. I do try and swim, when I can get down there and depending on, I prefer going early morning, but if I'm not up because I'm too tired, I won't push my body and think I'm going to do it. The kind of things I used to do back in the day, regardless how tired I was, I'd go out and train. I don't do the same now. I make sure I'm feeling ready mentally and physically, and I'm thinking, I'm just going to go for it, you know, I kind of listen to my body a lot more now than what I did, and it helps.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And obviously my diet, you know, I know a lot of people out there manage their MS through diet, but when I was playing football, I had a pretty good diet and obviously I was still getting these illnesses.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Still getting the symptoms.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So therefore my diet was helping but not as much as the medication. So for me, you know, you kind of find yourself a rock and a hard place because I'm feeling good taking the medication, I'm thinking maybe I don't need to take it, but if I stop taking it, the likelihood of me being ill again, for me, is going to come around and I'd rather just take the medication, feel good and think, 'I don't want to take it' instead of not taking it and end up like 5 paces back, if not more, than what I am now. So.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
It's like when you, you know, you go to the gym and you get a personal trainer for 3 months. You do a lot of great work, and then you think, brilliant, I've made it.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And then you stop, and then you go all the way back, which I've done several times.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. You just don't give it that same drive, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah. But it, um, I suppose, you know, you're incredibly active by the sounds of it, and do you find that your coaching really helps as part of that, um, coaching the men's team?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Coaching the men's team, it's like, that obviously that's my voluntary work, that's something I enjoy doing, so that's for my peace of mind, so that has probably got a big thing because when people voluntary coach, it's mentally what you're getting out from it, you know, and I thoroughly enjoy doing that, so I keep myself active mentally and that side is good. Obviously keeping myself physically active for myself in and around everything I do, I think it's a top on, you know, it top-ups everything in there. You know, my job I have now, it's a lot of driving I do, so obviously when I get home I'll chuck the car keys in like, I need my trainers, and the girls, ‘Mum, you just got into’. ‘I know, I just need a 20-minute run, I just need to get my body moving’, because those that drive, you know, it's tiring, you know, when you're driving up and down like 2 hours, you don't realise, you're just sitting.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
But it's got that concentration.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And then your body just, it makes your body feel really numb. I never knew that before, but I never had to drive as much every day, you know. But I'm doing it now, so I need to make sure I'm more active when I get home now.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And it's the same for us like we, we sit at a desk all day, kind of typing, and you really have to like make sure you're getting up and moving around, because otherwise you’ll just, you can find that you've done 1,500 steps in a day, which is a shocker. So you became an MS Society ambassador in 2022 on International Women's Day, I think, which I quite liked. What made you become an ambassador?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah. Um, if my story is able to help other people come to terms with their condition, you know, and I can just help them, if it's just one person I'm helping, like just come to terms with it and just realise, you know, it's not the end of the world for you, you know, then I'm happy to do that. And I've had a good impact from what I've heard from them, um, with people I've spoken to, you know, I've done some like training things that people can do with MS. You're not stopped, you're limited to some things you can do, but it doesn't stop you. I think for me, only you personally can stop yourself doing something. Other people have limitations for you, but don't let someone give you your limitations, and that is one thing I really drive out there because, you know, I had a lot of people telling me I couldn't do things. You know, when I was going to move from Fulham to Arsenal, I was told I was never going to get into the Arsenal squad, I wasn't good enough. Um, and I was like, I'm going to trial that for myself, you know. I went to Arsenal and I'm a quadruple holder now, you know, I've got 4, like that, my big 4 trophies there, you know. If I'd believed in that person said I'm not going to make it, I wouldn't have gone to Arsenal, wouldn't have tried there, you know. So they didn't limitate what I could do, you know. I had that drive, so, and that's what I'd let people know, you know. Don't let other people tell you what you can and can't do. You can work with your own body to the best you can work with it, and then only you can decide when enough's enough for you.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
It sounds like it's quite important though to listen to your body.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Oh, very important.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And I mean, how have you become, I suppose, more strict with listening to your body compared to when you were playing?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Do you know, I don't think I've become more strict, it's just my body, you know. You know your body better than anyone else can and it's like you just go hand in hand. You know when you've pushed yourself too much and you know when enough's enough and it's just like, you just like I probably listen to it a bit more.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
And that's the only difference now. It don't mean I always take them board, like sometimes I'm feeling tired and I'm thinking, I need to stop, I may go that extra 5 minutes before stopping, but I do stop, but it's not always there and then because I think maybe I can just push myself a little bit more, but I don't push myself to pure exhaustion anymore.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah, and I suppose one thing I found quite interesting is you've worked with the MS Society to design some football-themed exercises and you've done some videos which are online about different exercises And what was the purpose of doing those?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, yeah. It's just for the movement, to get people moving around, because obviously when you have MS, especially if you're having a relapse or you've got progressive MS, your movement limitation is there and obviously the pains that you have, like with your nerve endings going through, you're restricted your full movement. So just having them moving a ball around you know, it helps, you know, having a visual there to help you move things, gets people moving, and that was very productive. So I really actually enjoyed doing that that day. We had all different levels of MS in there, showing that everyone with full range, like mine, MSL, those who got progressively or secondary MS there as well, they're able to do the same things. Obviously different limits to what we're able to do, but still aiming to do the same thing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Nice. And what, um, what would you say to someone who's watching this who's either newly diagnosed themselves or has got a family member that's been newly diagnosed who's, I suppose, thinking, oh gosh, like, I'm never going to have the life I did have. I mean, what would you recommend as a first step for them?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Take a deep breath, you know, it's one day at a time, you know, it doesn't change straight away for you. You know, when you get diagnosed with MS, it's like you've been knocked with a lorry, it does knock you for six. But just taking it step by step, not thinking it's going to change overnight and you're going to be back to normal, you know, it will take a bit of time and obviously, like I said, for me, I had to mentally get myself around it. And any of us, we had the best conversations with ourselves and sometimes the worst and that was probably one of the worst conversations I had myself because that little voice in my head was getting the better of me to start with. But until we got to a happy like medium in there, and fully understand each other, we were able to move on. So it's one of those ones, just take your time, take a deep breath, and, you know, it does change you without doubt, but it's going to make you a better you.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And, you know, you said you can have relapses. How do you build up a kind of, how have you built up a resilience to keep going when those happen?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, you've got to, you’ve got to let them ride and go through their little course of how long. Sometimes they can be a few days. Sometimes, I've not had one since taking my medication, I've not had a relapse which has been longer than 4 days, which is really good. But when it does come, I've just got to let it ride its course and then slowly build up again. You know, it takes a bit of me each time, but I do come back to the best I can, you know, I've got to be 100% of what I'm left with, and that is pretty good for me.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And does it help you to know kind of that you've done it once, so you can do it again?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It does help that, you know, it's a big thing to know that you can do it and it does take, like I said, it takes a bit of you each time, but you can come back and you've just got to, you just become more resilient with yourself each time and you've got to get a different mind-set each time because there will be a time where it takes a bit more than you expected it to take and it's how you bounce back from that. I've not had that yet, but like the little ones I've had, I've dealt with and I've just got to make sure I've got to keep that mind-set so if I get another major one, I'm able to bounce back from there. But I won't know the reaction of that until that actually happens, but I'm hoping I'm giving myself in a good place that…
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Fingers crossed.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I can deal with it if it comes, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And do you have any coping mechanisms that you use while you're, while you're going through tougher periods? I mean, have you got anything, you know, sometimes we're like, right, I'm going to eat that whole tub of ice cream, or I'm going to watch that really trashy show on TV.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Do you know what, I just like, I take time for myself and I really switch off, like, obviously the world, like in work, it controls what you do, you know, you've got emails, you've got work phones, you know. If I feel I'm getting too tired and it's getting too much, everything goes like, I don't have my phone on me. I'm very content of leaving my phone at home and going out without it, you know. I won't answer emails, I won't answer calls unless it's my family, my parents, because obviously they're older, I want to keep an eye on them. But if I know it's a call that I can call back later, I switch off from the world, whether that be right or wrong, but for me it's right. And I take a couple of days to myself, actually a full 2 days, and I don't do nothing, literally and it's, I love it. I mean, I've had one of those the weekend, so I've just come back from it, but I do just switch off from everything and just have time for me, which is what I need for me. It's different for everybody, but that's what I need for me.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And actually, probably taking a break from our phones is healthy for everyone so.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So yeah, it's like, I do love leaving my phone and not looking at it. Like, my kids don't understand it because when I say to them, you can't have your phone put down, like, I've just taken their life, I've ruined their life, literally and I've taken their phone with them, it's like it's the end of the world. But I'm just like, you're going to be grateful one day that I've actually getting you to do this now, because there's going to be a point where you're going to want to put your phone down and not answer it, um, and I do that.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
We have a rule that if you're out for dinner, you can't have your phone at the dinner table, and if anyone gets it out, they're paying for dinner for everyone so.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
That's a good shout.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
It has worked quite well. I suppose looking back across everything, the girl who, you know, was in Peckham kind of climbing trees, playing with her brothers, a young mother at the World Cup, you know, captaincy, the MS diagnosis, the men's trophy. Like, what do you think is a common thread that has carried you through all of that?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Football's the biggest one in there, obviously, it's been the biggest driver. Like I said, I do think it's people trying to hold me back. For me, that is just, it's a common story you know, people trying to stop me or not believing I can do something and I had that within myself, has been, it's got to be for me the common one that's got me to everywhere I've got. That bit of doubt that people had just gave me that extra push that I needed to say, I can do it and I'm able to do it.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Because some people would just, they would crumble at that.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, some people do. I mean, I'm not built up like things can make me crumble, but because it was my passion, it's something I wanted to do, I didn't like the sheer fact it was getting taken away from me without a given reason and a just cause and I wanted to, I wanted to fail for myself. Um, you know, there's some things I failed at, but I've done it. I've not achieved it, but at least I know I can achieve it, or I'm not as good as I wanted to be, and not just because you told me I can't do it, you know, I've pushed myself to the edges. I'm either, yes, I'm making it, or no, I'm not. You know, football's one of those things, and the stories of my life so far have been one of those things there, you know, I've had to push myself and see what I can do and what I can't do. Obviously, it's like with MS as well, you know, I had to come back and build myself up from that again, and I was able to do that with the sheer fact that I'd known I'd gone through illnesses early on and come through them. That helped me push through that diagnosis period that I had in 2017.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And you were inducted, I think, into the English Football Hall of Fame?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Yeah, Football Hall of Fame up in Manchester.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Uh, when you heard that, like, what did it mean to you?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
That's crazy, that, like, you're going to go into the Football Hall of Fame, it's like, but what is that? You know, just like, is it like, you don't see yourself in that kind of light, you know, you're like, what I've done is something, it's been my dream, it's my story, it's absolutely great, but the sheer fact it can have an impact on other people and help them see it, like I am seeing is believing, you know, you don't have to see everything to believe it, but when you can see it makes it more empowering, makes it more empowered, like you think you can, you can grab that, um, but sheer fact that my shirt's up there, my name's up in the Hall of Fame with many others, you know, it is pretty cool. It's like, just seeing it is amazing, like, um, being a quadruple winner at Arsenal. You know I don't know if any of you are Arsenal fans, but if you go up to Arsenal and you see the big memorial on the wall and you see the women's side, obviously you look at it and I got there and I'm, as I announce there, I'm still in awe of it and I look at myself thinking, oh my days, I'm up on that next to the Invincibles. It's like, oh my days, my kids like, Mum, why do you look at me? Because I'm so touched by the sheer fact, you know, that's the Invincibles, you know, that's like the Thierry Henry era, like, and that's my team now. We've done a quadruple that year, it's like, it's amazing.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Have you got a selfie of you being like…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I have not, I've not got a selfie, but I've got a picture of it up there because like, it's just amazing that that's a major achievement, you know, it's still, um, it’s still not spoken about enough because in that year, you know, obviously you had Arsenal, they were the Invincibles, but they didn't get a trophy that year, where the women, they had a clean sweep, they won all 4 trophies. And I've got the photo at home, like, with the men and women's team and all the trophies on the front with the women. It was so great and that is one of my favourite photos where you've got, you know, Vic Akers and you've got Venga sitting there, the whole teams and all the trophies there and it's like every one of those trophies belong to the women.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Amazing.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It is, isn't it? I love that picture.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And, um, what would you say to a young girl today from Peckham or otherwise who's been told you can't do that?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Go for it, you know, do what you can do, you know. If you've got a passion for it, you know, take that, take that deep dive and see how far it can take you, you know. Once you know you can't do it for yourself, that's when it's end game but until you've actually achieved that and know that you can't make it, you know, it's out there for you. All doors are open.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And talking about all doors are open, you've got something very exciting coming up, I believe, on the 4th of July. Um, you are coaching the Lionesses.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
I'm going to coach the Legends, Lionesses team, Legends against the Samaritans doing a charity game down at Peckham Town, which is absolutely great. But it's going to be great to see some of the old players I've played with, managing them actually against the Samaritans women team, just building obviously charity just to go towards, um, suicide within football that's going into that for, because obviously that's been a major thing in football recently.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
So work alongside and Full Circle Talent, um, going to be manager for their team.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And there's tickets available so people can come?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
There are tickets available, and I'm fair certain if it's on, you can go into Full Talent. Am I right in there? Yeah, go into Full Talent website and you'll be able to get your tickets there, um, or you can turn up on the day and pay in the gate to get your ticket so, you know, it's all there and it's all going to a good cause as well.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Amazing, that's brilliant. I have to ask one last question, and I, it, who is your, who do you support as a football team? Was it Peckham Town when you were growing up or like…
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Do you know, I've never, I don't support a football team, so to speak. I don't have a set team, but I do, obviously, when I was growing up, Millwall was my local team. So I used to go down and watch them a lot. Obviously, as I've grown up, Arsenal has been the team and it's just the way they play football and their style of football. I like watching a great game of football and I don't know if anyone's seen the World Cup, but my favourite game at the minute has been Ivory Coast and Spain, and I know lots of people hated that game. It was a nil-nil. Ivory Coast sacked it, but I really enjoyed that game because both teams had a game plan and they both executed it. But obviously the defensive team in Ivory Coast, you know, although it was a draw, they come out winners because they stopped European champions doing the unthinkable, you know. So I enjoy watching a great game of football, but it's not always got to be goal scoring, it can be a nil-nil draw, but you've got to read in the game, see what's happening.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
It's the skill in the game.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
It's the skill in it, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
And talking about skill in the game, what is your prediction for tonight for the England game?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Do you know, it's what, England 3, do you know, it's mad, it's England 3, Croatia, and that was where, that was my first cap against Croatia. Um, so I'd go for 2-1 maybe, England. A 2-1 England.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
There you go, heard it here first.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Don't put no bets on it because I'm not taking no responsibility, but yeah, I reckon it could be 2-1 England, yeah.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Lovely. Well, I'm going to open the floor to questions, um, thank you, Mary.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You're welcome.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Has anyone got a question for Mary in the room or online? Please do remember to put it in the Q&A online.
Audience
Mary, thank you so much for sharing your story. That's actually been actually really so inspiring. I just wanted to ask a question. It would be human nature, I think, be a bit envious of the modern women's game for someone that came before. Are there things though that you think were better in your day? And one of the things I was thinking about, for example, is social media and press intrusion today for footballers and what your thoughts are on that.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Social media impacts players a lot because, as you know, like behind the screen you can be as big and boastful as you like and people do like to pull people down to certain levels and, you know, a lot of players have had to deal with that and having to deal with bullying, and that's what it is online with a person that you can't see face to face, you know, would that person have the same thing to say to you if they were standing, if they were sitting next to me right now? And they've had to deal with, they, um, so the players today have to deal with that and so I'm kind of glad I haven't had to deal with that. But then also, I'm also going to believe that you as a player, you don't have to read that because you can always switch off because you've got to log into online stuff or you've got to hear it so it's a hard line to come with, but I'm glad I've never had to deal with that. I've had to deal in a world where everything was face-to-face, so if you weren't going to say it or you couldn't back it, you never said it. Where nowadays you can say what you want because people got to find you first, and you can, and that's a hard one to do as well, although there is systems in place now to track people down, so you can say a lot of stuff online, but you will get caught.
Mishcon
Okay, I'll go online, but I need to ask you a question first, Mary, because firstly, that was incredible.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Thank you.
Mishcon
And I feel really pumped and I'm going to go to the gym. Um, I just think you're incredible and have given me all the will in the world. Um, my son is 10 and wants to be a footballer, and I was talking to him about you last night, and his question, which I promised I would ask you, is how many kicky-uppies can you do? What's your record?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
My record is probably, when I was playing, is probably around 200. I weren't the best, I was far from the best. Like my teammate, she can kick up for England, I could have had her kicking up here for the whole talk, she'd still be going now, she can do thousands. So I'm nowhere in that level, um, but I had enough to have a bit of ball control, but I say my max was 200. But I will go, when I first, we done testing and I'll never forget, I was at Millwall, we had to do some testing, we had a little square box like that. I done 3. Yeah, so I had to build on that, on there, but it works but yeah, that's my you can tell him that.
Mishcon
I will.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
That's, 3 is more than me, so well done. Um, just a question in terms of the training that you talked about, in terms of the exercises. Is there anywhere online or anywhere that we can find those exercises?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
If you go on to the MS Society, for the MS you are on about?
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Yeah.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
On the MS Society website, they will be on there, and I'm sure it's like training with Mary Phillips, something like that.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Okay.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
But they will definitely be on the MS website, MS Society, I should say.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Lovely, thank you so much.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
You’re welcome.
Mishcon
Yeah, that's it, that's it. Oh, got another question there.
Audience
Thanks so much, it was really great to hear about your experiences and your accomplishments.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Thank you.
Audience
And I think especially entering the Football Hall of Fame and the precedents that you set, set a really good example of how you can't be what you can't see. And I think that message of visibility is really great for the next kind of up-and-coming in terms of people, female footballers and girls, but also people dealing with MS and, you know, managing it with exercise. It's all about representing something. I just wanted to ask, looking back on your, with that in mind about how you can't be what you can't see, who did you look up to when you were kind of getting started on your journey? Did you have any kind of heroes or inspirations?
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Do you know what, and whilst I didn't have any set heroes like, I grew up watching football, and obviously Match of the Day used to be on a Saturday. So I used to come home and we used to watch all the teams, like, my brother is a hard core Liverpool supporter, and he still is today. But so I used to grow up seeing like Bruce Grobbler, John Barnes, but I used to like watching Chris Waddle, you know, Mark Bright, Ian, ah, my days, there's so many out there that you can see. But I looked across the field of players. I never ever set one plan for I want to be that. You know, I looked at all the different skill sets and obviously you used to try like little rainbow flicks, the step overs, you know, the Cruyff turns. They're all the things that you just want to take up and you wanted to, I wanted to practise them, but I never idolised one set person and thought, that is me, I'm going to be that one. I just picked bits and pieces, the best bits I saw in a person that I thought I wanted to master, I picked them for me. Now, many people see different things, but I just saw the things that I wanted to try and do and master them without actually trying to be that person and replicate that person.
Audience
Thank you.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Okay, thank, I just, will you all join me in saying a massive thank you to Mary? We've really enjoyed it today.
Mary Phillip, Former Professional Footballer
Thank you all.
Cassandra Hill, Partner
Thank you.