Welcome to the Jazz Shapers Podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM, however, the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the Business World together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is Rahda Yyas, Co-Founder of Flash Pack, the adventure travel company for like-minded solo travellers. Having fallen in love with travel in her childhood, it was while on a generic group trip in her early 30’s that Rahda saw an opportunity for a game changing brand that would transfer the group travel sector by matching people of a similar age with immersive moments of adventure. Pitching her idea to her future co-founder and future husband I should add, Lee Thompson on their very first date, the pair launched Flash Pack together in 2014 and gained global attention after a selfie at Brazil’s Christ the Redeemer statue went viral. More on that shortly. If you haven’t looked it up, go and look it up, it’s amazing. And despite being brutally hit by the Covid pandemic forcing their business into administration and Rahda and Lee into near bankruptcy, they decided to go again with Flash Pack 2.0. Flash Pack has since surpassed their pre-pandemic revenue of 20 million pounds and are booming with a 100% year over year growth, over 50 trip destinations and over 200,000 friendships created and counting.
Why the travel thing Rahda? Why do you love travel? Because I read you love travel and I read that age 7 you were packed off with your older sister who was aged 9, to go and see family in Kenya that you’d never met before.
Radha Vyas
Yeah that’s right, um.
Elliot Moss
That’s quite a thing?
Radha Vyas
Yeah I didn’t realise it was a thing until my daughter just turned 7 a few weeks ago.
Elliot Moss
And you were like how could you do that?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it’s a bit crazy, um, we got up to so much mischief on the plane and in Africa. We were there for two months, uh, it was, you know, it was the best time of my life. I don’t remember missing my parents. I absolutely loved it. Went on safari, camping, all sorts but it definitely cemented my love for travel. My parents are also adventurers, they still are, you know, they, they travel the world and so we travelled, we were lucky, we travelled a lot when we were younger. And then, um, as I grew up I lived in Madrid for a year, went to Complutense University in Madrid. I lived in France, I lived in Chile. So I lived around the world before I settled in London. So it’s in my veins.
Elliot Moss
And, um, you studied European Politics in Spanish and Spanish at the University of Hull?
Radha Vyas
Yes I did.
Elliot Moss
I did a very similar course at Leeds, Parliamentary and Political studies with Spanish at Leeds. But we’re not going to talk in Spanish. That would not be good. Partly because you’re going to be much better and partly because why are you talking Spanish, it’s Jazz FM, the music fine but not this. Um, and then we go forward to this, um, I hope you don’t mind me saying, Match.com match with Mr Lee, Lee Thompson.
Radha Vyas
Yes.
Elliot Moss
Uh, and on your first date you decide you’re going to set up a business?
Radha Vyas
Yeah, I was…
Elliot Moss
I mean that’s kind of, is that, is that really true?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it’s actually true. So we, I thought I’d better sort out my love life, I was in my early 30’s and being an Asian woman.
Elliot Moss
So practical. I was going to say, it’s on the list, I’m just going to do it.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Forget love and romance, I need… it says here, I need to find a husband.
Radha Vyas
Yep, well I did actually view it like a project. Which is probably why I met him quite quickly but, um, the algorithms matched us for our love of business and travel. He was a photo journalist and, uh, actually lived 10 minutes away from me in Brixton but we would never have met if it wasn’t for Match.com. He had a different, totally different life to me and, uh, we spent the entire night drinking, eating, talking about travel and business and after a few too many glasses of red I divulged this business idea I had and he just got it. He completely got it. He was single in his 30’s, he’d just persuaded his married friends to go on holiday in Thailand with him. Didn’t know what he was going to do for his next holiday and he got it and we didn’t quite start the business that day.
Elliot Moss
No.
Radha Vyas
You know, we dated for a year, uh, we took a crazy holiday to Sierra Leone which we survived and then after about a year we set up the business.
Elliot Moss
Did you know that you were going to marry him that night?
Radha Vyas
Um, I was…
Elliot Moss
You have to give me the honest answer, she’s flickered, the eyes, the eyes are telling me, maybe not so sure Elliot.
Radha Vyas
Yeah, no, I mean he was, he was definitely good looking.
Elliot Moss
Well I’ve seen the pictures, he’s very good looking.
Radha Vyas
And we got on really well. Marriage, you know, I’m, I’m a practical person.
Elliot Moss
Love it. Head and heart. Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, it’s Radha Vyas and she is the Co-Founder of Flash Pack and that is the business that enables you to go and travel whether you’re in a relationship or not but it’s for people who want to go on their own and meet lots of other people.
One of the key things that happened and I alluded to it at the beginning was this photo that Lee took and there’s also a 2 minute film of Lee climbing up a very famous monument in Brazil, the… what’s it called? Christ the Redeemer statue. It’s enormous and this thing went viral in 2014. Sounds like, because you both agree that this would indeed be a thing that people would be interested in and it was a great way of bringing to life the brand and the business. Amazingly simple idea? I mean how did you happen upon that as a thought?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it was out of desperation in all honesty.
Elliot Moss
Was it? What are we going to do, no one’s heard of us.
Radha Vyas
We had £15,000 to invest in the business and we were running out of those funds very quickly. We were 6 months in and we had no bookings so we were, we were desperate. We went on a very cheap holiday to Egypt at the time, nobody was travelling to Egypt because of the Arab Springs. We got a budget holiday and Lee was reading, I think, um, Matchable or something at the time and the statue was being fixed because of lightening damage and the World Cup was approaching and Lee just came up with the idea, just had this hair brained idea and he said, do you know what, I know how to get eyeballs on our website. We knew we had a good business idea so we’ve got instinct but we had no proof and we were running out of money so it was just, I don’t know, it was, maybe it was luck, maybe it was preparation, I don’t know. Lee flew to Brazil with our last £1,000. He door stepped the Archdiocese and said, look Brazil’s getting loads of bad press - you may remember they were pacifying the Favellas before the football?
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Radha Vyas
And they were getting loads of bad press, and he said, look I can turn it around, give me access to the statue. And they said, you’re mad but meet me at the statue tomorrow at 2.00 o’clock and Lee was at the foot of the statue, waited for 3 hours. The Archdiocese turned up and told the workmen to let him up. And so he climbed the statue from inside.
Elliot Moss
I saw the video, there’s an amazing film on YouTube, it’s like 2 minutes and 9 seconds or something.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
And it’s, I mean, was that actual climbing?
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
How do you, I mean…
Radha Vyas
I mean I think there’s a ladder half way up.
Elliot Moss
And then I saw there, there was a workman that was with, with him at the time with his helmet, his hat on, what do you call it?
Radha Vyas
Yeah the safety helmet, yeah.
Elliot Moss
That’s the one. Safety helmet, thank you. My language is slightly suffering today. And then he gets through, pops up and suddenly there’s this photo which is just awesome. Without having realised I’d seen that photo, I’d seen that photo.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
I think that’s the point, it is a brilliant photo, a selfie and the film itself is like, oh my lord. But he’s, that looked, how did he hold on? It looked so scary.
Radha Vyas
Yeah, I mean it’s terrifying.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Radha Vyas
And that’s why it went viral because when you look at it your stomach churns right?
Elliot Moss
Well he talked about suffering from agoraphobia, I mean he says, you know, he was brave and all that but you’re up there, it’s, it’s not claustrophobia because he doesn’t suffer from that but the agoraphobia and just the, the sheer awesomeness of it all in one go is crazy.
Radha Vyas
Yeah. Yeah I don’t know, I wouldn’t have been able to do it, I think my legs would have been shaking.
Elliot Moss
But that whole thing then catapulted. The, the website goes down because so many people are going on it and then did it recover and then suddenly genuinely the business started to tick up?
Radha Vyas
Yeah we started getting monthly traction. So we started getting 10, 15, 20 bookings a month and then it went to 50 bookings a month and that’s how we got going and suddenly everyone knew Flash Pack was a company that would take you to places that wouldn’t be accessible on your own. So, um, yeah it worked, it got us off the ground and it gave us that conviction that we had a good idea.
Elliot Moss
And probably just in terms of pressure, must have relieved the pressure at the time because I can’t imagine, we’ll come on to pressure point two in, in a bit but that pressure point one was, what if this fails? And what if it had failed Rahda, what would you have done?
Radha Vyas
Yeah, I mean we were on the edge, definitely. We were running out of funds, we were running out of ideas, we were running out of energy and hope so we were very much on the edge. So, and I think sometimes these things do happen out of desperation right. You come up with some of your best ideas when you’re constrained, when you don’t have money to chuck at an agency or you don’t have time and that was definitely one of those moments.
Elliot Moss
Desperation is not a bad thing always and I love your, I think there’s a favourite quote of yours which I, I then looked up from Seneca The Stoic, Luck is opportunity meets preparation. Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, it’s Radha Vyas and she is the Co-Founder of Flash Pack and they enable people to go on brilliant holidays, but with a bit of a twist. She’s coming back shortly. Right now though we’re going to hear a taster though from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions which can be found on all the major podcast platforms. Mishcon de Reya’s Emily Knight talks to Charlotte Yong, a fund manager at Troy Asset Management about why women historically invest less than men and what’s being done to change it.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers if you’re lucky on the Jazz Shapers podcast, and you can hear this very programme again if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your favourite podcast platform. My guest today is Radha Vyas, she’s Co-Founder of Flash Pack, the adventure travel company for like-minded solo travellers. I always move into my, and now coming up next it’s another commercial for the company. But it’s not like that. Um, so things are going swimmingly and then this thing called a global pandemic hits and things are suddenly thrown into chaos. I, I understand that in around 2020 many venture capital firms were circling very happily, uh, saying, oh this looks juicy, this is wonderful. You’ve got lots of people around the world and then there’s a global lockdown of travel. What happened? What was going through your mind as literally you watch your business implode?
Radha Vyas
It was devastating and it was particularly brutal because we had been flying so high. For 4 years all I knew was growth, growth, growth and we were making hay while the sun was shining, I mean it was fantastic. We didn’t think anything could stop us. I’d just had a baby, came back to work to an inbox full of VC’s in the UK and America saying, ah we’ve heard about you, we don’t know any business that’s boot strapped to 20 million in 4 years, we’d like to invest. And so I came back and thought, okay well maybe we should take some money, this could be a good idea.
Elliot Moss
So at that point had anyone else invested?
Radha Vyas
We’d taken £250,000 in 2016 and that’s when Lee and I went full-time into the business.
Elliot Moss
Friends and family type stuff?
Radha Vyas
Um, no, a seed investor.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Radha Vyas
Who’d made some money in the travel industry himself, invested in us and that’s the only money we’d taken in 4 years.
Elliot Moss
Right. Okay and then so chaos ensues. Suddenly the inbox of the highs of the, we want to invest in you is replaced by, you can’t fly around the world now and you’ve got lots of people who are stranded, literally stranded?
Radha Vyas
Yeah and we could see it coming. You may remember, we could see it coming.
Elliot Moss
I do, that February moment, we were in Copenhagen for a, for a couple of days, my wife and I and then suddenly people are wearing masks and suddenly about 3 weeks later there’s a lockdown.
Radha Vyas
Exactly. So we were just trying to get the fundraise done as quickly as possible because at the time, in February, end of Jan, beginning of Feb not many people were taking Covid seriously. We thought it was an Italian thing, you might remember that?
Elliot Moss
I do, yeah.
Radha Vyas
Um, so we were just trying to get the fundraise done but on, I think it was the 20 March or, no it was Friday, 13 March.
Elliot Moss
That’s it, it was, yeah.
Radha Vyas
Trump closed the borders.
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Radha Vyas
And that was it. That was the beginning of the end of Flash Pack. Revenue dropped overnight. It just switched off, switched off the lights and bookings just dried up, phones were ringing off the hook. Customers stranded in Costa Rica, stranded in Morocco.
Elliot Moss
What were you feeling at the time.
Radha Vyas
Just absolute sheer panic. Um…
Elliot Moss
And was it physical?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it was visceral.
Elliot Moss
You know when, you know, when I, when I, when I’m stressed it’s like it is visceral so it was a, but how do you get, how do you carry on going when you’re feeling literally sick?
Radha Vyas
I think I just went into, I just went into operational mode. I set up a room in the office which we called the ‘War Room’ and we got together every hour, on the hour to report on what customers were saying, who was stranded, where, you know, and, and then for the team members who weren’t in the room, you know, they’d call in every hour and then we continued that for about 2 to 3 days. Um, until we got most of our customers home and then we kind of dealt with the fall out of, okay what happens now, we’re a boot strap business, we don’t have lots of reserves, you know, we don’t have loads of money in the bank and, um, we were living kind of, you know, hand to mouth each month and yeah, we just realised very quickly that we had to either find the money or sell the business so we started doing both. We tried to sell the business and tried to carry on with the fundraising. Obviously all the investors dropped out, um, and everyone was in kind of panic, panic mode, self-preservation mode, right. We carried on doing that, tried to save the business. We furloughed everybody, tried to save the business for about 6 months. We were having lots of conversations with our competitors who were kind of feigning interest in buying the business but obviously I now know that they obviously didn’t have the funds to buy a business but it was a good opportunity to try and find out what our secret sources was. So, um, went around doing lots of meetings and then in October realised that we weren’t going to be able to save the business and I had to do my fiduciary duty as a director and put the business into administration which we did in November.
Elliot Moss
The reality is you have to shutter this business. It goes into administration. Miraculously you are able to buy back your business. What’s the time, the distinction between when you have to go into administration to when you then are able to buy it back? How long was that period?
Radha Vyas
It was quite quick. I mean the entire process took over a year but that piece…
Elliot Moss
Yeah.
Radha Vyas
…um, was about a month. So the business gets marketed for sale and there are bidders and we…
Elliot Moss
Were there other bidders?
Radha Vyas
There were other bidders, there were three other bidders and we re-mortgaged our house and scrambled together as much money as we could from friends and family.
Elliot Moss
So your, was your, and the administrator then has a duty to say, what’s the best bid and then we go from there.
Radha Vyas
That’s right.
Elliot Moss
And at that point you were the best bid?
Radha Vyas
Luckily we found out a few weeks later that we were the highest bidder, yeah and it was, it was a very, very difficult few weeks.
Elliot Moss
But are you buying at that point actually in, in, so I understand?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it’s a good question. It’s the assets of the business. So the website, the technology, the customer data base, um, social media assets that kind of thing.
Elliot Moss
Okay so then you…
Radha Vyas
The brand.
Elliot Moss
…you go again and again I read I a lovely quote here from you, if you’re going through a crisis, do not hide, face it. Where’s that strength come from for you Rahda?
Radha Vyas
Honestly there are a couple of things. I, I love the business, I love it so much and I honestly couldn’t think of another business idea that was so good.
Elliot Moss
Not even a tea business?
Radha Vyas
Not even the tea business.
Elliot Moss
We, we know about teaology.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
This is the business that didn’t quite happen?
Radha Vyas
That’s right. I wrote this 70 page business plan but couldn’t get it off the ground. No I couldn’t, it’s an amazing business, um, in terms of the product, the people, the community but also the economics of the business are really strong so, um, I couldn’t think of another business idea I wanted to do and I just wasn’t ready to give up and I think, I’m just that kind of person that I can’t, I just cannot give up.
Elliot Moss
Where do you get that from do you think?
Radha Vyas
Um, I’m, I’m not sure. I think maybe, my parents were immigrants. They came here in the ‘70’s with nothing and they built a life through sheer hard work and determination and I just saw them, you know, relentlessly every day building a better life for themselves and for us and not kind of accepting the hand that they’ve been dealt. So maybe from that. I think some of it’s, um, I’ve got a point to prove. I’m a woman, I’m Asian, I’m a mother.
Elliot Moss
Mm.
Radha Vyas
You know, I’m kind of…
Elliot Moss
Do you feel that though. Are you actively when you’re in battle as it were, and I use that phrase thoughtfully. Is it like, they need to know, they need to know they’re not dealing just because I’m Asian, just because I’m a woman, just because I’m a mother, doesn’t mean I’m going to be any kind of pushover or not be thinking through this or whatever it might be. What, why is there this point to prove?
Radha Vyas
Yeah, I think I’m used to being overlooked. I’m used to being underestimated. I, I grew up in a town which wasn’t very diverse, Milton Keynes in the ‘80’s.
Elliot Moss
Lots of roundabouts though.
Radha Vyas
Lots of roundabouts.
Elliot Moss
But not lots of diversity?
Radha Vyas
Wasn’t in the ‘80’s. Now, now there is.
Elliot Moss
Now very much yeah.
Radha Vyas
Yeah so I think, um, I think it comes from that, like a point to prove that I can do it, um, even if I don’t look like the typical kind of business person, entrepreneur. Um, and then some of it’s just my daughter, honestly now it’s my daughter. I just want her to grow up knowing that women can build empires, they can, you know, they can do whatever they need to do and they can be really strong and so, I think it’s a bit of everything.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for my final chat with my guest today, It’s Radha Vyas and we’ve got some soul for you too from Mica Miller. That’s in just a moment.
Radha Vyas is my Business Shaper just for a few more minutes. She’s the Co-Founder of Flash Pack. I still love that name, I say it every time and I surprise myself. It’s such a cool name. So you, from the ashes this thing gets reborn. It happens, you’ve saved it, you’ve put your money in. When did you know you hadn’t made a mistake doing that? How soon after putting the money in, re-mortgaging your house, were you going, Lee I think it’s going to be okay?
Radha Vyas
It took a while. So we couldn’t boot strap the second time round…
Elliot Moss
Right.
Radha Vyas
…because we had a sizeable business with, you know, thousands of customers so we couldn’t really boot strap again.
Elliot Moss
So did you fundraise at that point?
Radha Vyas
So I had to fundraise so I went out to find an investor and we found a massive fund who saw the vision of community travel was going to be massive after Covid, right…
Elliot Moss
Right.
Radha Vyas
…because suddenly everyone understood that the quality of your connections, the quality of your friendships is really important for your health and longevity so they backed our vision and they gave us the money to start again.
Elliot Moss
And what was your relationship like with Lee at this point without us going into marital therapy? You’ve gone through a lot, you start off with the dream and the fun, he’s up on the top of the statue, things go, all hell breaks loose in a good way. You’re about to make loads of money, then you almost disappear. I mean this is one hell of a ride.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Where are you and Lee by the time things are okay again? Is everything, you know, is it tough being married to your co-founder?
Radha Vyas
Yeah it’s really tough because our entire net worth was in Flash Pack. We didn’t pay ourselves properly in the first edition of Flash Pack. We didn’t, you know, we had that kind of martyrdom mind-set that founders shouldn’t pay themselves very well then, you know, we didn’t have a pension and so when Flash Pack died, we had nothing to show for it. So we were almost personally bankrupt. We had a toddler at home, she had just turned one before the pandemic.
Elliot Moss
It’s good timing.
Radha Vyas
We were in a flat in Brixton. It was tough, it was really tough.
Elliot Moss
And how did you get through it?
Radha Vyas
Um, honestly we’re probably, Lee and I are probably best when it’s just the two of us in the trenches together but after when we’d kind of rebooted I think we had to deal with all of that. So at the time we were just, you know, heads down. Lee and I had, um, distinct roles so we would, he would look after my daughter in the morning and, um, I would go down into the basement and fundraise, try and save the business and then we’d swap in the afternoon and he would save the business and the brand and help customers get refunds and things like that and I would look after my daughter and so we were a really good team when, you know, we have to be and we don’t have any other choice. When we rebooted the business we’d got the fundraise, uh, we had to deal with all of that trauma because it was traumatic.
Elliot Moss
Mm, and you worked through it?
Radha Vyas
We did work through it, we’re still married.
Elliot Moss
I was going to say, without me asking. But you, you told me. And I think I read somewhere about the impact, the hidden impact of there’s the husband and wife relationship, the two of you have but actually when founders, and I’ve close, some of my closest friends are founders and they’re going, you know, they’re always all going through stuff at different times. There’s an impact on your friends and your family and I think you’ve talked about that before. Just, just explain what, when did you realise that actually they were worrying about you?
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Without the obvious, I mean of course we all know our friends worry but was, was there, were there moments when you went, hold on a second I’m impacting other people’s lives here?
Radha Vyas
Yeah so I’m, I’m very close to my family, I have two sisters and I’m very close to my mum and dad and we share a lot. And I think I realised a few years into the journey that I was sharing too much because they were going on the rollercoaster with us and the highs and lows and, you know, the constant battles and the disappointments and getting back up, um, and I realised that it was really hard on them because they can’t, they’re not in control of it, they can’t actually do anything to help but they’re just going on this emotional rollercoaster with you. So after a few years I stopped sharing so much. Obviously the Covid journey I had to, I had to lean on them. My sisters had to swoop in and look after my daughter for two weeks because we couldn’t cope with trying to repatriate hundreds and thousands of customers, um, so I did lean on them but now I would say I would say I talk to them less about the business. I tell them about specific milestones but I don’t take them on the journey.
Elliot Moss
I think it’s that thing that as you get older you realise that you need boundaries.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Especially with family because you’re sharing because you need to share but also you think they want to know and I think there’s the realisation that maybe not so much, maybe not so healthy. Um, and right now, just before I ask you your song choice. It looks really positive, things are going absolutely in the right direction. What’s underpinning the success? Is it the original idea? Is it just as simple as that?
Radha Vyas
Yeah, nothing has really changed, the, the whole premise of bringing groups of people together, the community, building friendship through travel. The entire business model is exactly the same. I think Covid has made everyone realise that making friends in your 30’, 40’s and 50’s is tremendously difficult and it’s a skill you need to redevelop and actually Flash Packs here making it easier, much easier. You can develop friendships in 10 days rather than, you know, over a period of months or years.
Elliot Moss
And you’ve extended the age group haven’t you? I think you’ve just…
Radha Vyas
We have.
Elliot Moss
…recently gone from, it was up to 49 and now you can even talk to old people like me.
Radha Vyas
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
I mean, and, and Stu, um, who, you know, is now careering through his 50’s along with me.
Radha Vyas
Well I didn’t want to age out of my own product so I had to extend it.
Elliot Moss
Yes.
Radha Vyas
So.
Elliot Moss
It’s solely self-interested. It sounds brilliant, I’m so happy that it kind of, it had the reboot and, um, for someone who’s been through the ringer, you look incredibly positive and, and not, not weighed down.
Radha Vyas
Thank you.
Elliot Moss
It’s good, really good. Just before I let you go, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Radha Vyas
It’s I Fall in Love Too Easily by Chet Baker. I’ve chosen it because my husband, Lee, is a trumpet player and he sang this song to our daughter every single day when she was first born and so it’s a, it’s one of my fondest memories but also I think it captures something about the way Lee and I live our lives. We fall in love very easily with ideas and places and people, um, but most of all I think it’s just, it’s all about my daughter, Anya and, you know, none of this makes sense without her so that’s the reason.
Elliot Moss
Chet Baker with I Fall in Love Too Easily, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Radha Vyas. She talked about some of the best ideas coming out of desperation and actually being constrained. You don’t need money, sometimes when there’s pressure, better ideas come out. She talked about having a point to prove as a woman, as an Asian woman, as a mum that she’s felt underestimated and sometimes unseen. So watch out, do not underestimate people, especially not Rahda. And she also really interestingly talked about sharing too much and the pressure that unintentionally puts on your very closest friends and family, especially in these really high stake situations when you’re a founder and so much is going on and so much that’s stressful is going on. Really interesting point I thought. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds of more guests available for you to listen to in our archive. To find out more just search ‘Jazz Shapers’ in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.